Artificiality = biggest difference between Aspies and NTs?

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I think in my case, artificiality vs. naturality is the biggest difference between NTs and me. I think we're all basically the same inside, I just happen to show more of it on the outside than NTs do.

Eg: NTs use smalltalk as a means to an aim, an ""ARTIFICE"" (as in manipulation of results through use of an instrument), not because it comes natural. It's part of the learning of socialization. It's not a natural phenomenon pouring spontaneously from one's brain to one's mouth. Talking about what REALLY is occupying our thought at the moment is the NATURAL thing (what Aspies do).

What do you think?

It's a good theory. Though I've found many NTs who are incredibly straightforward. Also I can be extremely artificial when I place a big emphasis on trying to act NT myself.

I was thinking about this today. I attended a family event with very seasoned talkers of the talk (after dinner circuit and so forth) floating around the room. I find it immensely difficult to just make small talk with people. It should be the simplest thing in the world but at the time I have no idea what to say!
The social veneer was very polished in every corner of the room and it is quite intimidating if you start to worry about it.
I am very transparent and have a hard time telling lies to people without them noticing (not to say I haven't tried) or disguising my emotions in everyday situations.

Nts engage in small-talk because it feels good to them. It's not artificial, they enjoy social interaction no matter how trite or meaningless it may seem.

Interestingly, an NT person should be easy to converse with because the NT person should be able to pick up the slack. Maybe you're conversing with other aspies and you don't know it.

For instance, I can tell if I'm talking to someone who is uncomfortable and I can find things to say to fill in the blanks. I just blab away and most times, I'll hit a topic that they can draw on and then the person is more comfortable.

Small talk is simply being friendly. I don't think even NT people find it that rewarding if you want to know the truth. It's how you start and then more interesting conversation follows.

My son has no problem with small talk. He just avoids it altogether and gets right to his points. But, he is not uncomfortable. I hope this never changes. He is overconfident right now, and I can't see him changing.

I think it depends on if the NT is interested in the person (aspie) they are talking to... if they are willing to make the effort to understand someone who is different.

Last edited by Mysty on 27 Jul 2008, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think this is true at all. For most NTs, the social graces that we struggle with come naturally. We lack what a lot of people consider to be "common sense". As others have said, there are plenty of NTs who are honest and don't compromise themselves - they just know how to go about it in a way that doesn't scare people off. And some aspies (including myself at times) have tried to act "NT" or just kept certain aspects of themselves on the down-low for whatever reason with varying degrees of success.

Really, what it all boils down to is that we are wired differently. Artificiality is just human nature, NT or otherwise.

No.

The "natural" thing is to say whatever be necessary to ensure our well-being and survival. Sometimes - as we all must have experienced - the truth aint conducive towards said purposes.

Much like a cat will arch its back to look bigger or some snakes be look'n like their poisonous kin, nature be built upon deception as a means to survival. With working intelligences, humans (*some) oughta be able to extend that simple concept towards basic social interaction as a means for self advancement.

As others have pointed out, some people just be wired differently.

Not true for me. In my case, I have a hard time participating in conversations because I have a hard time keeping up. For me, artificiality vs naturality has nothing to do with it. I've met lots of "NT"s who are natural, and who love my bluntness. I still can't keep up, and am relegated to the margins.

Artifice is artifice no matter who does it, but normals find it more acceptable. This is probably because normals are better at it. Also agree with most of the responses in the negative, because everyone is different.

Like everything else, true to a degree and equally untrue to a degree. Philosophy is useful to those who can tolerate it. Any answer must overcome a threefold obstacle:

Nothing exists as perceived.
If nothing exists as perceived, then nothing can be known about what exists.
If nothing can be known about what exists, then knowledge about what exists can't be communicated to others.

Most people do not accept the obstacle because it is inconvenient to natural behaviors -- acting as though perceptions are knowledge which can be communicated leads to individual and social survival. The obstacle, though more true, does not encourage survival.

I think my biggest problem stems from lack of spontaneity. Most people seem to be able to pull stuff out of the blue to keep the conversation going. Yet when I try to pull something up I don’t get received as well. There’s something subliminally off. I don’t say things with the right words or the right tone / body language that people expect. NT’s seem to respond to style over content.

Sometimes it feels like I could try to project myself more strongly if I really wanted to but I just don’t seem to have the energy that NT’s do when talking. I just can’t get emotionally into a conversation unless it interests me deeply.

When I get excited I start talking more strongly and using more gestures but when I get bored I get soft and talk off into nowhere. NTs seem to have this ability to be appear emotionally even and show interest steadily. It's nearly impossible for me. Also, my mind drifts constantly away from the conversation so I have to ask people to repeat themselves a lot.

What I've noticed about NTs is that they tend to pay a lot more attention to energies passing between people -- like chemistry between men and women, women trying to get other women to either relate to them or be jealous of them... men trying to get other men to respect or fear them... I'm being really superficial, I know, but this is just what comes to mind.

I find that the NTs I deal with on a daily basis are much more interested in exchanging attention and figuring out who's better or more powerful or more beautiful or whatever, than others -- establishing a hierarchy or social ranking... Again, really really superficial and probably unfair, to some extent, but it's what I've noticed.

I think that a lot of artificial NT behavior I've seen has been geared towards projecting a certain image, a certain "mystique" -- and not being that concerned about actually backing it up with hard evidence. Posing for pictures, as it were.

I apologize if I'm being unfair, but that's what I've noticed. I don't want to be a boor, but this seems to me to be a huge difference between Aspies and NT folks -- the artificial posing vs. just being who and what we are -- and either forgetting or not even knowing how to turn ourselves into something different to make other people more comfortable.

I have to say, I've gotten into some trouble over the years, by doing really good imitations of NT folks -- playing their game, as it were. Just kind of going along and pretending I knew what was going on, pretending to be interested, trying to make myself into something other than the Aspie I am. And it's landed me into so much hot water, when I forgot and let down my guard.

It's hard to ask for help, when nobody realizes you're in trouble -- and they won't believe you when you say you are...

I try to avoid people who are like this.

One problem I have is telling when someone is sending bad vibes on purpose or if it's just the way they are. There isn't really a firm dividing line. Sometimes people seem arrogant but you don't know if they're trying to be or not. You don't know whether they're trying to make you uncomfortable or not.

Sales people in particular I have trouble with. Sometimes it seems like they don’t want to listen to my questions because they’re so intent on trying to convince me to buy something. It comes off as arrogant and I feel like my intelligence is insulted. I get irritated but I don’t know whether it’s right for me to judge them. They may be a nice person otherwise but feel they need to act pushy to be successful at their job. I know I could never be a sales person. Being that kind of personality would never be my cup of tea.

A lot of smalltalk seems like social grooming to me, which is fine with me and sounds natural enough even if I don't do it.

Most times, I feel like the one who is being artificial.

Or maybe the big difference is how much we buy into the artificiality of it.... to what extent it becomes real or even necessary. I've heard a lot of people here, in this thread and elsewhere, talk about "playing NT," and I've done likewise.... I more or less have to do it every day to some extent or another. But it seems we know we're faking it. I, at least, feel more real acting like one of my characters in a roleplaying game than I do acting like one of them for any substantial length of time. NTs... sometimes I read or hear an exchange, and I think to myself, "do people really buy the phony crap they're saying to one another?" But then, if they didn't, why would quite a bit of NT conversation be necessary at all? If they realized how fake and pointless it was, I'd think that, assuming they're reasonable people, they'd skip it, and therefore they don't realize it's fake. It would seem that whatever sense that they had that it was all just for show is gone, and the artificial stuff has become, usually, the ONLY thing one sees of a great number of other people.