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Kacy
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03 Aug 2008, 12:16 am

Hello. I am new here, and so grateful to find this forum. I could really use some advice/perspective.

My son is 6 years old. He was diagnosed HFA/Asperger’s in April 2007, one month shy of his 5th birthday. Up until that point, we knew he was different from other kids (he was our first/only), but I believed what I was seeing in him was simply a function of his temperament and personality, nothing more. I was not afraid of a diagnosis, in fact several times prior I had “sniffed out” the possibility of Autism, but each time was told he didn’t have it. I agreed. It was only after he was enrolled in preschool at age 4 that his teacher tipped us off that she really thought some screening was needed. We took her advice, and long story short, 9 months later we had a diagnosis.

He was diagnosed by a psychologist and pediatric neurologist, each specialists in Autism. They were both great to him/us, and very helpful with information and advice. He has been in OT and speech therapy for over a year (once each per week), and went to our local kindergarten last year with an IEP. He did great, and loved his teacher/school. He does not have any friends, but saw his classmates as being “all his friends”.

From birth until the time of his diagnosis, just shy of 5 years, he and I were very close. We did everything together, and I was his advocate/mom/first friend. The medical doctor expressed his delight in our son, and while he did not score above average in IQ tests (basically age appropriate/average), the doctor noted that our son was “one of the kids he’d like to meet again in 20 years” and that we were “lucky to not have any behavioral problems with him” (we had none up to that point).

Well, things have changed.

Almost immediately after the diagnosis (I remember noting the date), he began asserting his independence, saying no, etc. Okay fine that is good, totally normal development. Only he did it 100x more than “average”. Disagreeing. Arguing. Talking back. Sassy talk. Bossy. Trying to control myself and his dad. And then came the meltdowns (never had them before). We were shocked. I kept thinking it was a phase, and remained consistent in discipline, expectations, etc. We enlisted the help of the psychologist, who continued his path of discipline ideas with us, and basically have told us that we are doing great, and to keep on doing the same with him. BUT IT IS GETTING SO MUCH WORSE. Every day has a battle, arguments, control issues.

Have there been changes in his life? Oh yes. We had a baby one year ago (the behavior came before the baby). He has been great w/ his brother, but I am sure there is some tie in there. He started school (kindergarten, behavior also started before). He started therapy. I keep thinking that w/ each transition he may settle down, like being home this summer, which he loves. Nope. Worse. It is incredible. His grandmother (who does not experience these problems with him) was over today, and she was visibly shocked. I don’t think she really believed me when I would tell her in the past of the problems we are having with him.

Some things I do know:
1. These behaviors are reserved for me and his dad. This is good news to me, as it suggests that I may being doing something wrong/ can change something I am doing. I am so willing to do that!

2. About 90 percent of the bad behavior occurs in our home. He is pretty good in public, some minor upsets, but not more than “N/T”, I think.

3. Other adults think he is great, although a bit gauche (lots of loud talk, questioning, pacing/long dialogues, etc). We always receive great reports from teachers/therapists.

4. He has no sleep issues (has always been a “good sleeper”), and while he does not eat dairy due to lactose intolerance, he has no other dietary restrictions. We are considering a gluten free trial, but I have seen no ties of his behavior to food (and I have looked, we eat mostly whole/organic foods), but am willing to give it a shot. He also takes no meds.

5. Both his dad and I are “N/T’s”, but we have fractured autistic traits rampant on my side. I have a cousin, past, who was believed to be HFA (postmortem assumption), and all of my maternal uncles show signs (honest to goodness rocket scientist in there!), and more.

6. He has a picture schedule, and we we have a fluid daily routine, structured mealtime, etc. There has been many "mystery" afternoons this summer(no schedule activitiy), and I do see him struggle with that.

I am going back to the psychologist on Monday for some help, we see him very infrequently so we will have a lot to cover. I am desperate for advice, anything, even if it means telling me I am handling him wrong. I have developed a thick skin this last year, and I can take the heat. Please, I need some help, for both of us.

Thanks so much for making it to the end of this post! I am not on the computer every day, but I will do my best to reply to any thoughts offered as promptly as possible. So glad to be here!
Kacy



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03 Aug 2008, 12:23 am

Kacy - big hugs, you and your family are in a hard place right now.

Just something that sprang to mind while reading. Is there anything in his physical environment that changed about the time of his meltdowns? I'm thinking a upsetting sensory change.

My daughter used to get very distressed during winter by the noisy central heating system in our old home. She also gets upset when she are at the shops and go near the key cutting stand - can't cope with that noise?

New carpet? new furnishings.

It is amazing how something very small to us can make such a huge impact in our childrens lives.



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03 Aug 2008, 3:14 am

I cant say what exactly is making your son 'act up', but I might have a guess.

Learning to become independent and think for yourself is part of growing up. My most likely guess is that he is beginning to view you and his father as equals instead of superiors. It is an aspie trait to view everybody on equal ground, regardless of commonly accepted social ranking. That most likely means he is beginning to resent you for trying to control his life when he feels like you have no right telling him what to do.

Put yourself in his shoes. If your husband told you what to eat, when to eat, what to wear, where to go, what to do, who to talk to, what to watch, what to say, how to say it, etc. You would resent him for trying to control your life. Odds are your son is the same way.

One indication of this is that he is asking 'why?' more often. He should also seem angry or upset when you tell him to do something without an explanation. What you consider 'talking back' might simply be him being upset with being told what to do when he doesn't understand why.

The fix is fairly simple in theory, but tricky in practice. You simply have to treat him as an equal human being, with respect. You wouldn't demand your husband do something for you. You would ask him nicely, and say please. If he has a question, you would answer it. In the same way, if you want your son to do something, try asking him nicely and explaining why it is important instead of making it a demand. If he asks a question, then answer it as best you can. If you don't have time to answer, or cant think of a good answer, then the response 'I'm your mother and I say so' is NOT!! !! a proper substitute. Tell him that you dont have an answer, but will think about it, and give him a response later. Ask him to please trust you, and you will explain why later. And then of course you actually have to explain why at some point, or else your son will lose trust in you. If you cant explain it because he wouldnt understand the answer, then try to simplify it until he understands it. Common reasons to not do something include 'It will hurt another person, and thats a bad thing to do. You wouldnt want to be hurt yourself, so you have to be fair and not hurt others.' or 'It will probably make you sick if you do it' You dont need to go into psychology or medicine to give a simple answer like that.

I am not saying that you should stop guiding your son, and let him take over completely. Its just that it may be time to step back a bit and let him make some more decisions. And when you do decide something for your son, let him know the reasons why, and explain yourself to him. If he has strong objections, then talk it over with him, and try to come to a compromise.

Keep in mind that its possible your son has lost some trust and faith in you. So treating him with respect, as an equal human being will not automatically make him like you again. But give it some time, and he will probably treat you with the same respect you treat him. Keep in mind that this is a double edged sword. If you treat him with disrespect and continually tell him what to do while ignoring his objections or questions then he will not respect you. But if you treat him with respect, then the respect will be mutual.



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03 Aug 2008, 5:30 am

I can relate a lot to what your post describes. The hardest thing is wanting things to improve, but being at your wits end to know what to do.

I thought some of the things Tracker said were good. One thing that I'd add is that I have changed my discipline approach with my son over the last couple of years. Nothing has changed in terms of him being disciplined or given timeout etc. What has changed is my expectation that he should know the right thing to do - to not talk back and to say sorry. Now I focus on "coaching" him through the bad behaviour by telling him what he needs to do. I try and stay calm too which helps (sometimes you feel like losing it but it makes it 10x worse).
I will do something like tell him to go to his room. If he doesn't or objects I just say, "I'm going to count to five. If you haven't gone then ..... (bad consequence)." He usually always goes then and I praise him by saying that's good he's gone. I will then usually give him a couple of minutes and then go in and say very briefly, "You cannot do ....... I need you to say sorry." Usually he will apologise and everything will be better. If he doesn't I repeat it and tell him I will leave and he can come and tell me when he's ready. I guess it is about focusing on getting him to turn the behaviour around, rather than holding him completely accountable for it.
Anyway, I have probably waffled enough about it. It seems to work a lot better for me rather than yelling at him and saying things like, "What on earth did you do that for?".
Hope you find some answers. I've also started my son on Phosphatidyl Serine recently (a dietary supplement that helps brain clarity and de-stresses).



Kacy
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04 Aug 2008, 12:04 am

I am so grateful for everyone's advice, I can't express how valuable it is to me to hear these ideas from "people in the know". I will take all of your ideas to heart, and figure out ways to integrate some new approaches into my parenting and relationship w/ my son. You know, it is interesting, everything was going well until we got an official diagnosis. I can't help but wonder if somehow my parenting changed when that happened, I didn't think it did, but it is plausible. I keep trying so hard to "manage" him, manage the autism behaviors. The psychologist who helps us, one of the best in our state for autism as per the medical community(Alaska), tells us that the more we can keep him "out of Autism Land", or his special interests/stimming, the better. He said it is okay for him to do these things, but in measured amounts, because the longer he does them (stretches of time), the "more he is in Autism Land", which is apparently a bad thing???? I am beginning to wonder. It is exhausting, literally everything my son does is a special interest! He doesn't do anything he isn't interested in! He just goes from one thing to the next.

My instincts for parenting were much better when I didn't know he "had" AS. Now, everything he does, I am thinking, is that okay? Clearly I am beginning to see that I am the problem here. I have work to do.

Thanks again everyone, sincerely, I mean it. And, is there any way for me to ask the kids on this forum for advice on the same question? Can I cross post?

Kacy



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04 Aug 2008, 4:10 am

Well thats your problem!

If you dont let him stim, of course his behavior will be worse. Stimming is a way to reduce stress. If you dont let him do something to reduce stress then he is going to be hard to handle. Not letting him stim is like letting him get only 3 hours of sleep, and then expecting him to behave well.

And whats wrong with doing your hobbies? Just because your son spends a lot of time doing something he is very interested in doesnt make it a bad thing. If he does it too much to the point of not doing more important things (eating, sleeping, school) then you have a problem. But somehow limiting how much time he can spend on his hobbies when there is nothing important he should be doing isnt helpful or needed.

Perhaps taking him 'out of autism land' is considered good in Alaska, but I personally would become very annoyed at anybody who tried to change the way I am forcefully. If a certain stim is distracting, then you can asking him to stop doing that specific stim. Likewise, if his hobbies become too obsessive, and he fails to complete other tasks, then you can talk with him, and get him to do it less. But stopping the behavior completely just leads to frustration. You might as well ask your son to stop eating and not complain about the hunger.



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04 Aug 2008, 12:14 pm

First and foremost, don't be so hard on yourself. ALL children save their worst behavior for mom and dad, for the simple reason that these are the people they feel safe with, that they feel will love them no matter what they do. It doesn't mean that YOU are making the mistakes. The stress could very well be at school, with your son simply not feeling comfortable trying to release it until he is home. This is very, very common.

I have to say I also disagree with your psychologist. Stims and special interests are how those on the spectrum self-calm. My son is learning to restrict those to home, but home is mostly the "free" space, where he can be who he is, without judgment and with limited restriction. Once we stopped trying to squash his pacing, for example, we saw a HUGE reduction in meltdowns. I guess the question is, what is the goal? A child that presents as "normal," or a child that is happy. You can take the autism out of the child, but SHOULD you? When I read these forums and see how many spectrum children grow up with negative views of themselves and of the world, the level of bitterness that can happen, the answer is clear to me: your child needs to be who he is. He needs to learn what he has to in order to get by in this world, and to some degree he will spend much of his days "acting," but at some point he also needs to release and be who he is. Living life in the NT world is inherently stressful to spectrum kids, it's important to remember that. Sensory input is all wrong, other kids play by rules they can't understand, and so forth. Yes, they will learn to cope through it, and play the part, but it is taking it's toll.

I am going to assume that what the psychologist is trying to prevent is having your son disengage from the world, and I do understand that is a risk. But if your child is out in the world every day engaging, I don't think a few hours of disengaging at home is a sign of full retreat. Just a necessary self-calming mechanism. And if it does become more drastic, you have to ask not how to limit it, but how to reduce the stress in the rest of your child's life so that his need for it goes down.

Early on someone suggested to me that I make note of what preceded the meltdowns. Not the 5 minutes before, but the whole day, sometimes even the whole week. My son, for example, loves to travel, but returning home used to be a nightmare. For as much as he enjoyed the experience, it was also extremely stressful for him, and it was once he got home that he finally allowed it to release. Kids can be drawn to and enjoy things that really are not good for them. So finding the REAL triggers isn't always going to be obvious. But do look for them: knowing the triggers will allow you to figure out how to mitigate them.

And ASD kids can be upset by the most unusual things. My son was deathly afraid of automatic toilets for a while: on outings with day camp, he would refuse to go potty the entire day. It's difficult to envision what the big world looks and feels like to our kids, but we have to try if we are going to help.

Basically, do a lot of observing, and a lot of talking (assuming you have a communicative child). Find out the core of his stress, and help him deal with it. And treat him as an equal, as was suggested above (funny, I hadn't thought about it the way the poster wrote it, but I adapted my parenting style long ago strictly on intuition, trial and error, and when I was reading that post it made so much sense!). My son is more obviously on the spectrum at age 11 than he ever has been at any earlier age, but he is also THRIVING and coming into his own, turning his gifts into viable assets, and earning respect from other children (and friends) being mostly himself. It has been amazing to see.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


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05 Aug 2008, 5:39 pm

Thanks to all the previous posters - I've learnt a lot from you and don't have much to add except to say you're doing a great job Kacy, and your openess to learn is the very best thing you can do for your child.

My son wasn't diagnosed with mild AS until he was 16 and I often wonder if he would have turned out differently if he'd been diagnosed earlier and had therapy of some sort. As it was we regarded him as different, but nonetheless precious, and accommodated his 'quirks' as best we could. I have some training in Spec. Ed. and Psychology so obviously we had our suspicions. Because of my professional background I know that some psychologists and therapists are very good, but that some aren't. Our son has always been a very happy individual and I do wonder if efforts to make him more 'normal' would have interfered with this, perhaps would have made him feel bad about himself. Our son's AS is mild (he probably wouldn't have qualified for state intervention anyway)and a lot depends on degree, but it's interesting that you say your son's behaviour changed after diagnosis.

So, let your son be who he is. It's very hard and tiring for all young children to be 'good' and conformist at school all day, and especially so for AS kids. They need to be able to shrug that off and be themselves when they get home and parents bear the brunt of this. Your boy obviously has a strong sense of what behaviour is expected of him away from home, which is something to be thankful for.

Allow him to pursue his passions and his stims at home if he needs to and hopefully the oppositional behaviour will decline.
Good luck.



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05 Aug 2008, 8:09 pm

Hello,

I have 2 of my 3 sons diagnosed with Aspeger's.

My oldest has always been very well behaved at school, but he used to come home and EXPLODE!! We've made some changes which helped.

At school he is surrounding by other people which is extremely exhausting. He was coming home with complete sensory overload. Now he is allowed to play computer for 30 minutes when he comes home and I don't push him for conversation.

He doesn't want to talk about his day immediately because he's exhausted. He needs solitude to de-stress. Time alone after school pursuing his special interest is the best combination for de-stressing.

I also disagree with the psychologist about supressing stims and special interests. My children stim more when they are anxious. So I look for the source of anxiety and try to fix that.

I have never ever told them to stop stimming. If they are rocking/spinning I know it is soothing for them.

Also, self-interests are soothing and educational for the parents. I impress my friends with my 'expertise' in dinosaurs, insects and other special interests my sons have had over the years.

Helen



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05 Aug 2008, 8:44 pm

Kacy wrote:
Hello. I am new here, and so grateful to find this forum. I could really use some advice/perspective.

My son is 6 years old. He was diagnosed HFA/Asperger’s in April 2007, one month shy of his 5th birthday. Up until that point, we knew he was different from other kids (he was our first/only), but I believed what I was seeing in him was simply a function of his temperament and personality, nothing more.


I was much like that but a year older before I went to the psychiatrist. That was BEFORE HFA or AS, and I didn't seem overtly autistic in any way there.

Kacy wrote:
the doctor noted that our son was “one of the kids he’d like to meet again in 20 years” and that we were “lucky to not have any behavioral problems with him” (we had none up to that point).


Again, like me.

Kacy wrote:
Almost immediately after the diagnosis (I remember noting the date), he began asserting his independence, saying no, etc. Okay fine that is good, totally normal development. Only he did it 100x more than “average”. Disagreeing. Arguing. Talking back. Sassy talk. Bossy. Trying to control myself and his dad. And then came the meltdowns (never had them before). We were shocked. I kept thinking it was a phase, and remained consistent in discipline, expectations, etc. We enlisted the help of the psychologist, who continued his path of discipline ideas with us, and basically have told us that we are doing great, and to keep on doing the same with him. BUT IT IS GETTING SO MUCH WORSE. Every day has a battle, arguments, control issues.

Have there been changes in his life?


More than you know! People say that is about the time that AS and NT start REALLY parting ways! ALSO, it is about the time MY SCHOOL asked that I see a psychiatrist because I wasn't socialising right. They may not have had the diagnosis, but I had the symptoms/problems.

Kacy wrote:
Oh yes. We had a baby one year ago (the behavior came before the baby). He has been great w/ his brother, but I am sure there is some tie in there. He started school (kindergarten, behavior also started before). He started therapy. I keep thinking that w/ each transition he may settle down, like being home this summer, which he loves. Nope. Worse. It is incredible. His grandmother (who does not experience these problems with him) was over today, and she was visibly shocked. I don’t think she really believed me when I would tell her in the past of the problems we are having with him.


You might be totally wrong there. How was he when he was 2? You ARE describing the character of the average 2yo! I don't think I ever acted like that, but autistics DO develop differently, and the world has basically turned on him. Maybe he is trying to set limits.

Kacy wrote:
Some things I do know:
1. These behaviors are reserved for me and his dad. This is good news to me, as it suggests that I may being doing something wrong/ can change something I am doing. I am so willing to do that!


It FITS!

Kacy wrote:
2. About 90 percent of the bad behavior occurs in our home. He is pretty good in public, some minor upsets, but not more than “N/T”, I think.


FITS!

Kacy wrote:
3. Other adults think he is great, although a bit gauche (lots of loud talk, questioning, pacing/long dialogues, etc). We always receive great reports from teachers/therapists.


FITS!

Kacy wrote:
4. He has no sleep issues (has always been a “good sleeper”), and while he does not eat dairy due to lactose intolerance, he has no other dietary restrictions. We are considering a gluten free trial, but I have seen no ties of his behavior to food (and I have looked, we eat mostly whole/organic foods), but am willing to give it a shot. He also takes no meds.


Did you ASK him? Apparently MOST ASD people DO have problems, especially earlier.

Kacy wrote:
5. Both his dad and I are “N/T’s”, but we have fractured autistic traits rampant on my side. I have a cousin, past, who was believed to be HFA (postmortem assumption), and all of my maternal uncles show signs (honest to goodness rocket scientist in there!), and more.


Well, if he has been diagnosed.... It is the SYMPTOMS that matter though.

Kacy wrote:
6. He has a picture schedule, and we we have a fluid daily routine, structured mealtime, etc. There has been many "mystery" afternoons this summer(no schedule activitiy), and I do see him struggle with that.


Typical.

Kacy wrote:
I am going back to the psychologist on Monday for some help, we see him very infrequently so we will have a lot to cover. I am desperate for advice, anything, even if it means telling me I am handling him wrong. I have developed a thick skin this last year, and I can take the heat. Please, I need some help, for both of us.

Thanks so much for making it to the end of this post! I am not on the computer every day, but I will do my best to reply to any thoughts offered as promptly as possible. So glad to be here!
Kacy


I think it is possible that he is simply testing his boundaries a bit late. ALSO, is the environment tolerable for him? I have been in places where I just couldn't stand them, and got VERY upset if I couldn't leave. Either way, it IS more likely to happen in the home(where he spends most of his time), or in front of the immediate family(where such info might be useful). Like I said, MOST kids do that, but do it EARLIER!



Kacy
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06 Aug 2008, 1:44 am

Wow, thanks everyone. I sincerely appreciate you taking your time to read through my long post and give your opinion, it is humbling to me that virtual strangers are so willing to help one another.

You know, when my son was 2, he was quite docile. In fact, I remember making a mental note that through the ages of 2 and 3, he basically was quite easy in his own quirky way. He did what he was told, shoot, it was always like he sort of "appreciated" being told what to do. I realize that sounds terribly dictator-ish of me, but I am hoping you all can get what I mean by that...being told what to do in a loving, parent way, not a "do what your told" way. So, I will think about what was said about him asserting his independace quite late, that holds real potential for truth. I had thought of it before, so it is even better having it put back at me.

As far as stimming, I can say that I sometimes don't even know what his stimming is these days. When he was little, it was spinning things. He doesn't do that anymore, his own choice. Sometimes he will flap his fingers or hands, but when I was asked if he did this in his original autism screening, I said no. I had never seen him do it! It was only after the psychologist (same one) observed him at preschool that he saw it, then I saw it too. I remember being so surprised, like I was watching another child instead of my own. So now, I am thinking maybe it is funny noises?? I try to be pretty "dialed in" to his ways, but he is kind of all over the map so it can be hard. I never stop him from making noises, but if it is too distracting I suggest that he do them quietly, or move to his room or outside to do them louder. He always paces when talking, I have never said one word about that. I think it is charming.

Some of the things the psychologist wanted him "out" of was his special interest time ( he said like 1/2 hour, then he needed to come and do something w/ the family). With my son, everything he does is a special interest, so that is tricky too. Interestingly, he doesn't (yet???) take any of his interests too deep per se. What I mean is, they are kind of what I'd call a bit on the surface, in other words, he is very interested in dandelions and flowers in general(since 1 yr age) and does know their names, but doesn't care to know anything about them (how they grow, etc), he just obsesses about picking them, looking at them, sitting fields of them, etc. He is overwhelmed by lights and light fixtures and the sounds the fillaments make, but he doesn't know about lights (flourescent, incandescent (sp?)), and when we have offered to tell him about the different kinds he loses interest. Also, he loves office supplies and does know different brands of pens, etc, and he collects them (pens, pencils, "expo markers") and keeps them in his "studio" (desk). He does not use them! He loves the computer, but does not want to be taught how to do anything, he wants to do it himself. This only includes clicking around on "his favorites" (bookmarked and set by me on sites I thought he'd like) BUT NOT INDULGING IN THE CONTENT of the sites (just clicking for the sake of clicking, I know he likes the sounds), and typing pages of gibberish on Word (I have asked him if he ever plans to type words, and he says no). He does not want to play games on the computer, or any for that matter. Since it is summer, he is obsessed w/ lawn sprinklers and wants to know all the different kinds, but when I found him a website about sprinklers he wasn't interested in the data, just the pictures. He used to be into street signs and traffic patterns. He also loves balloons. The interests I hear a lot about in AS circles like trains, dinosaurs, astronomy, and video gaming he has no interest in at this time. The reason why I mention this is I often hear parents recounting how much their AS child knows about ___ thing, or you hear the child talk in great depth and detail about the subject. My son will talk endlessly about his interests, but he often doesn't "know" much about the subject! I have tried to help him gain access to information, but he says he isn't interested. I don't mind that, whatever level his interest is is fine with me. If anything it makes me wonder if he will take them farther as he ages, or if they will stay the same.

I really appreciate the perspectives given to me. I can't help but wonder if there are any AS kids who WEREN'T helped by a gluten free diet? If we do the diet, I want to do with my son, not to him. We have already talked about it a bit, but not too much as I am not sure yet if and how to proceed.
As far as his environment, how do I know if it is okay? I let him control how his room is set up/lighting, and he loves to help me move furniture around and organize the house. He seems to like how things are, but I will ask him again his opinion (it always makes me smile to hear what he says when I ask that).

Oh, and one more thing. My son is, a bit to my surprise, very social. He has a strong social drive, which appeared rather suddenly at age 2. He likes to be around people, likes to talk to people. I have always secretly thought that many of our home problems arise for the deceptively simple reason that he is couped up alone w/ me (and a 1 year old), and I am the only person he has to engage with. That means conversing, questioning, arguing, the whole caboodle. He has no friends. We often go out (he loves to go on errands and visiting), but not every single day. So I make sure that every day we go outside at least for a bit (we have had a rainy cold summer up here, it has been yuck!) so we can all get some frest air and exercise (he doesn't do well with the 'go outside and play" directive, even w/ ideas, he still struggles with it). I long for the day that he has a companion to do things with, as I know he desires on as well.

As long as they don't touch his markers!

Again, I am so thankful for all of your responses. I hope I'll get a chance to give back some of what has been given to me here as well.

Kacy



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06 Aug 2008, 5:55 am

Kacy wrote:
Wow, thanks everyone. I sincerely appreciate you taking your time to read through my long post and give your opinion, it is humbling to me that virtual strangers are so willing to help one another.

You know, when my son was 2, he was quite docile. In fact, I remember making a mental note that through the ages of 2 and 3, he basically was quite easy in his own quirky way. He did what he was told, shoot, it was always like he sort of "appreciated" being told what to do. I realize that sounds terribly dictator-ish of me, but I am hoping you all can get what I mean by that...being told what to do in a loving, parent way, not a "do what your told" way. So, I will think about what was said about him asserting his independace quite late, that holds real potential for truth. I had thought of it before, so it is even better having it put back at me.


Yeah, that aspect DID sound too much like the 2s to me to be a coincidence.

Kacy wrote:
As far as stimming, I can say that I sometimes don't even know what his stimming is these days. When he was little, it was spinning things. He doesn't do that anymore, his own choice. Sometimes he will flap his fingers or hands, but when I was asked if he did this in his original autism screening, I said no. I had never seen him do it! It was only after the psychologist (same one) observed him at preschool that he saw it, then I saw it too. I remember being so surprised, like I was watching another child instead of my own. So now, I am thinking maybe it is funny noises?? I try to be pretty "dialed in" to his ways, but he is kind of all over the map so it can be hard. I never stop him from making noises, but if it is too distracting I suggest that he do them quietly, or move to his room or outside to do them louder. He always paces when talking, I have never said one word about that. I think it is charming.


Yeah, that IS hard to tell. People HERE describe them as almost anything. To the best of my knowledge, I have never flapped. I usually rock. I don't know if it has ever been noticed, and I didn't think much about it until I found out about AS. I have another thing I do that is similar while standing, pace, and toss things in an odd way as a stim. I suspected one coworker of having AS. because of what he did with balls, etc... It was only after he left that people said he said he couldn't really think without it. So, WHO KNOWS?

Kacy wrote:
Some of the things the psychologist wanted him "out" of was his special interest time ( he said like 1/2 hour, then he needed to come and do something w/ the family).


I guess a half hour is OK, but make it flexible, and fun.

Kacy wrote:
With my son, everything he does is a special interest, so that is tricky too. Interestingly, he doesn't (yet???) take any of his interests too deep per se. What I mean is, they are kind of what I'd call a bit on the surface, in other words, he is very interested in dandelions and flowers in general(since 1 yr age) and does know their names, but doesn't care to know anything about them (how they grow, etc), he just obsesses about picking them, looking at them, sitting fields of them, etc. He is overwhelmed by lights and light fixtures and the sounds the fillaments make, but he doesn't know about lights (flourescent, incandescent (sp?)), and when we have offered to tell him about the different kinds he loses interest. Also, he loves office supplies and does know different brands of pens, etc, and he collects them (pens, pencils, "expo markers") and keeps them in his "studio" (desk). He does not use them! He loves the computer, but does not want to be taught how to do anything, he wants to do it himself. This only includes clicking around on "his favorites" (bookmarked and set by me on sites I thought he'd like) BUT NOT INDULGING IN THE CONTENT of the sites (just clicking for the sake of clicking, I know he likes the sounds), and typing pages of gibberish on Word (I have asked him if he ever plans to type words, and he says no). He does not want to play games on the computer, or any for that matter. Since it is summer, he is obsessed w/ lawn sprinklers and wants to know all the different kinds, but when I found him a website about sprinklers he wasn't interested in the data, just the pictures. He used to be into street signs and traffic patterns. He also loves balloons. The interests I hear a lot about in AS circles like trains, dinosaurs, astronomy, and video gaming he has no interest in at this time. The reason why I mention this is I often hear parents recounting how much their AS child knows about ___ thing, or you hear the child talk in great depth and detail about the subject. My son will talk endlessly about his interests, but he often doesn't "know" much about the subject! I have tried to help him gain access to information, but he says he isn't interested. I don't mind that, whatever level his interest is is fine with me. If anything it makes me wonder if he will take them farther as he ages, or if they will stay the same.


WOW, that IS unusual. Maybe he is almost like Helen keller. According to the story, she seemed like an IDIOT! Given her circumstance, I guess nobody should be amazed. Anyway, she SEEMED like one. According to the story, she hit her teacher and was NASTY! Her teacher tried like brainwashing type techniques on her. NOTHING helped keller until, one day, she realized the funny feelings fit a pattern! They were COMMUNICATION! THEN, she INSISTED to be taught! Does your son know how descriptive and useful the written word can be?

Apparently, MOST AS people could read early! I read before I was 4.

As for flourescent lights, merely as an example, I can tell you things like they get their name by making the gas flouresce, the reason why the long ones have 4 pins, why ballasts are needed, etc... But I never truly tried to remember how the actual bulb is made, etc... I always had some priority for what I wanted to learn.

Kacy wrote:
I really appreciate the perspectives given to me. I can't help but wonder if there are any AS kids who WEREN'T helped by a gluten free diet? If we do the diet, I want to do with my son, not to him. We have already talked about it a bit, but not too much as I am not sure yet if and how to proceed.


The gluten diet MIGHT help. I feel better on even a poor attempt at one. It is HARD to go 100%. But after a few weeks, it was like I was on amphetimines or something. Alert, clear, etc...

Kacy wrote:
As far as his environment, how do I know if it is okay? I let him control how his room is set up/lighting, and he loves to help me move furniture around and organize the house. He seems to like how things are, but I will ask him again his opinion (it always makes me smile to hear what he says when I ask that).


As long as you make it clear that you just want to hear HIS opinion, that should be enough.

Kacy wrote:
Oh, and one more thing. My son is, a bit to my surprise, very social. He has a strong social drive, which appeared rather suddenly at age 2. He likes to be around people, likes to talk to people.


That isn't really unusual. Reread my last message, about the world changing, 6, etc... You may find that he seems less and less adept socially. Don't worry, he won't be a monster or anything, it just gets harder for him to fit in. I wasn't exactly a hermit when I was a little kid. I was more vocal, and TRIED to fit in. I DO remember fitting in better.

Kacy wrote:
I have always secretly thought that many of our home problems arise for the deceptively simple reason that he is couped up alone w/ me (and a 1 year old), and I am the only person he has to engage with. That means conversing, questioning, arguing, the whole caboodle.


A psychologist, before I went to the psychiatrist, said my dad wasn't around enough. MAYBE I could catch better if he was there and acted like a father. Still, I DOUBT it. Most of my life would be the SAME! Boys DO change in a different way. So don't take it TOO personally.

Kacy wrote:
He has no friends. We often go out (he loves to go on errands and visiting), but not every single day. So I make sure that every day we go outside at least for a bit (we have had a rainy cold summer up here, it has been yuck!) so we can all get some frest air and exercise (he doesn't do well with the 'go outside and play" directive, even w/ ideas, he still struggles with it). I long for the day that he has a companion to do things with, as I know he desires on as well.


YEAH, I felt the SAME! I never married. 8-(

Kacy wrote:
As long as they don't touch his markers!

Again, I am so thankful for all of your responses. I hope I'll get a chance to give back some of what has been given to me here as well.

Kacy


Hey, it was nice talking to you. 8-)



DW_a_mom
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06 Aug 2008, 12:36 pm

Kacy, my son is very social, too. In a way, it's a sensory thing: an area in which he actively sensory seeks. He longs for the energy of interaction with people, and he longs for physical touch. But it took him a long time to know how to do it in a way that others were open to, and it was really frustrating for him. Social skills training becomes extra important for kids like ours, simply because they WANT it so much. And once he finds his gifts, that will make a difference. My son has gained a lot of respect from peers because of his gifts.

Some of what you described him enjoying may be an age thing. My daughter (NT, actually), still loves to just "type" on the computer. No words, just letters. It's a visual thing. She enjoys the volume, and can't create that with any speed if words are involved. She's actually starting now to vary it into real "type art," some of that stuff you've probably seen on the internet at times, pictures formed from letters. It sounds like your son is very, very visual. Fascinated by the lines and graphics and patterns. Makes you wonder what he is seeing, doesn't it? It would probably be amazing. Reminds me, actually, of an adult AS who once posted in a forum a picture of what he used to see when he stared at his favorite brick wall. He would see people forms, all interconnected, and count them.

Personally, I find a half hour focusing on a special interest a little short. My son tends to focus for 45 minutes to an hour, left on his own. That seems like a more natural space of time. And since he doesn't move from one session directly into another, it doesn't seem like THAT much time away from the family. I think that having a social/sensory seeking child, you really aren't in much danger of him really cutting himself off. I really can't imagine my son (who is also social/sensory seeking) cutting himself off from the family, either physically or emotionally, unless he was in a family that was basically abusing him and ignoring his needs (in which case it would be a necessary defense). His need for human contact is far too strong.

Side note, because it was mentioned in another post, my son learned to read late. He had visual tracking issues. As with so many things, our kids tend to be really good or really weak. Very little "average."

You son sounds adorable, by the way. We really do have amazing kids.


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06 Aug 2008, 1:19 pm

Kacy wrote:
I am so grateful for everyone's advice, I can't express how valuable it is to me to hear these ideas from "people in the know". I will take all of your ideas to heart, and figure out ways to integrate some new approaches into my parenting and relationship w/ my son. You know, it is interesting, everything was going well until we got an official diagnosis. I can't help but wonder if somehow my parenting changed when that happened, I didn't think it did, but it is plausible. I keep trying so hard to "manage" him, manage the autism behaviors. The psychologist who helps us, one of the best in our state for autism as per the medical community(Alaska), tells us that the more we can keep him "out of Autism Land", or his special interests/stimming, the better. He said it is okay for him to do these things, but in measured amounts, because the longer he does them (stretches of time), the "more he is in Autism Land", which is apparently a bad thing???? I am beginning to wonder. It is exhausting, literally everything my son does is a special interest! He doesn't do anything he isn't interested in! He just goes from one thing to the next.

My instincts for parenting were much better when I didn't know he "had" AS. Now, everything he does, I am thinking, is that okay? Clearly I am beginning to see that I am the problem here. I have work to do.

Thanks again everyone, sincerely, I mean it. And, is there any way for me to ask the kids on this forum for advice on the same question? Can I cross post?

Kacy


Unsure about the kid's forum; would suggest contacting a mod there.

Regarding the stims/interests... also disagree with the doctor (interesting - am from Alaska) and their advice regarding those behaviors. Being able to focus and relax thusly is a great benefit; over time, I've learned to channel and redirect those impulses when needed, but that came with time. There seems to be, in observation, a tinge of panic when a young child is not meeting norms and standards for development, especially with those with children on the spectrum. My own development was elastic, with stretches of misery and lurches of achievement. Agree with DW that a half-hour is a really short amount of time; it feels like placing an arbitrary adult number on a child. When I teach music lessons, my price structure is designed to discourage the half-hour lesson - there simply isn't time to work. Those on the spectrum sometimes have remarkable abilities to focus (as they do not experience as much social distraction stimuli), which begs the question why break down one of their strengths? Not directed at you personally, but a general question.

Having a social drive is not surprising; the conditions tend to impair the ability to discern, interpret and respond appropriately... but it doesn't make those affected empty of desire for connection. Reading here, it can even be the opposite, a desperate desire, an unslaked thirst that despite every effort remains rebuffed.

There are few, if any, one-size-fits-all answers here. Each situation and individual is unique. Hope to hear more, will reply as thoughts come. Take care, be well.


M.


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08 Aug 2008, 7:52 pm

Kacy, I just wanted to add to everyone else's posts- you are not alone. You could be describing my 5 year old son. He was diagnosed in November last year just before our Summer holidays. He was diagnosed because his preschool teacher thought he might have an auditory processing problem. We were really surprised when the pschyologist, then the speech therapist AND the paediatrician all diagnosed Aspergers. His behaviour up until then hadn't been too different from other kids his age. We always knew he was a bit different, but we just thought it was because he was so social, loved to talk and was really bright.
This year his behaviour deteriorated rapidly at home. He was still the gorgeous little boy at preschool, but in hindsight, we can see that he was really anxious. He managed to old it together until he got home. I didn't understand what was going on at all. With the help of a great team of people including a fantastic OT and paediatrician, we have implemented more structure into his day and incorporated heaps of sensory modulation activities to help him regulate his moods/ b ehaviour throughout the day. We are still not perfect, but light years from where we were 4-5 months ago.
I was sceptical about how sensory input could change his behaviour, but I am amazed at the difference it made.
Hang in there, you will find the things that work for your family!



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09 Aug 2008, 7:55 pm

My NT mother had some of the same problems you seem to be experiencing. From an AS young adult, my most sensible advice would be to allow yourself to use that mysterious faculty of empathy which you have and I do not.

As a child, I never saw myself as abnormal, and my mother likewise did not allow me to see myself as worse than everyone else. What you need to focus on is not that you now have an AS child who needs to be raised completely differently, but that you have YOUR child who is going through another phase of life. Don't act differently toward him than to any other children you may have. Instead, help him to deal with crises in ways that he can understand.

In other words, he's probably starting to recognize the distance other kids might make between themselves and him. I recognized it in 2nd grade, and immegiately became much more moody and difficult because I knew there was something I couldn't predict or understand. Simple tricks like reading statistics from the almanac or encyclopedia instead of reading bedtime stories helped to clear my mind and calm me down.

My mother taught me also to see social interactions as something of a ritual--help him to stock up on phrases that he can use to deal with a confusing interaction, such as 'Sorry, I didn't catch that' and 'Could you please give me a moment to think about that?' If you can pick up on the situations in which he feels unprepared, give him the tools to stall and calm down--he will remember them. For example, when I was in school and got teased by NTs, I couldn't retort, and I would feel stranded and confused. My mother gave me a few simple ways to respond to rudeness, like--'Go pick on someone your own size,' or 'One day when I'm your CEO you'll shut up and stop making fun of me for answering questions in class.'

Another thing I used to do is bring a small stack of crossword puzzles to keep in my backpack. When upset or disoriented, I would sit down wherever I was and do one. The predictability and the focused ritual of it soothed me almost instantly.


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