Do you think that God could have created the big bang?

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patrick6
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17 Sep 2008, 4:28 am

Are there any Christians out there who believe that God created the big bang?

I just learned a few days ago that the person to have discovered the big bang was a priest. I found this fact kind of bizarre since most Christians cringe when they hear about the big bang theory. The man who discovered the big bang happened to be a strong Christian (hence why he was a priest), while still believing the big bang to be the truth.

I've got something to ask you now: Why couldn't God have created the big bang? Are there any Christians out there who believe in the big bang?



schleppenheimer
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17 Sep 2008, 6:51 am

I don't see why not.



oblio
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17 Sep 2008, 7:15 am

i believe in the big bong, but then, i'm not a christian


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17 Sep 2008, 8:08 am

Yes, I am a devout Christian and I believe that God created the big bang. Unlike some people, I do not believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive. I even believe in evolution, up to a point. I do not believe that men and monkeys have a common ancestor. Science can't prove that one anyway -- where's the missing link?


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slowmutant
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17 Sep 2008, 8:59 am

The Big Bang signifies, for me, the beginning of Creation.

Is ths Big Bag still banging, or has it begun to crunch?



DNForrest
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17 Sep 2008, 10:05 am

slowmutant wrote:
The Big Bang signifies, for me, the beginning of Creation.

Is ths Big Bag still banging, or has it begun to crunch?


Still banging, otherwise we'd see a blueshift.


And while I don't believe that God created the Big Bang, I believe that it is possible.



twoshots
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17 Sep 2008, 11:53 am

slowmutant wrote:
The Big Bang signifies, for me, the beginning of Creation.

Is ths Big Bag still banging, or has it begun to crunch?

On the contrary, the universe's expansion is accelerating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy


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slowmutant
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17 Sep 2008, 12:52 pm

DNForrest wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
The Big Bang signifies, for me, the beginning of Creation.

Is ths Big Bag still banging, or has it begun to crunch?


Still banging, otherwise we'd see a blueshift.


And while I don't believe that God created the Big Bang, I believe that it is possible.


What's a blueshift?

And if God didn't create the Big Bang, who/what else could have?



DNForrest
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17 Sep 2008, 1:12 pm

slowmutant wrote:
DNForrest wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
The Big Bang signifies, for me, the beginning of Creation.

Is ths Big Bag still banging, or has it begun to crunch?


Still banging, otherwise we'd see a blueshift.


And while I don't believe that God created the Big Bang, I believe that it is possible.


What's a blueshift?

And if God didn't create the Big Bang, who/what else could have?


I'm not saying I don't believe in God, I'm saying I don't believe in anything, just possibilities based off of probability.

Blueshift occurs when light sources approach us, shortening the the light wavelengths and increasing the frequency, which makes the light shift to the "blue end" of the spectrum. Right now there's a redshift which is the result of most everything moving further away from us, increasing the wavelengths of the light towards the "red end" of the light spectrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_shift



Sling
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17 Sep 2008, 3:22 pm

The Big Bang, from what I gather, just occured from nothing. As in there was nothing then time, space and energy and so on just spontaneously appeared in an explosion that came from nothing. Scientists now think that the universe expands and crunches in an endless cycle or is part of a multi-verse. Either way none of these explain where everything comes from. If the Big Bang did happen, then, in my opinion, God must have started it becuase the Scientific explantions are inadequate and to suggest they are adequate isn't Science any longer but opinion and belief.

There are too many Scientific inadequacies for my liking. Biogenesis, the spontaneous generation of life from non-life, is completely impossible. Macroevolution, as in ameoba to man, has insufficient evidence and many articles used as "evidence" really really is not evidence at all. The Cambrian explosion also literally disproves the theory of common ancestry. Scientists keep also holding up false articles/fakeries as "evidence" when I know for a fact such evidence is either faked or misrepresented. I wouldn't be so opposed to Atheism/Naturalism if they just stopped trying to brainwash people and claim people are "deluded" for not believing in them.

Every time I point out these scientific inadequacies to people they're like "HURGH!! ! CREATIONIST!! !! DID SATAN DID IT?! !". How is this scientific refutation or reasoned debate? This just further highlight the rising illiteracy in Science.

People tell me to, quote, study up, unquote. I f*****g know more than them!! ! I've been reading science books all my f*****g life and they not only tell ME to study up, but then proove they know nothing about said subjects by copy and pasting walls of "evidence" they don't attempt to explain and either isn't really evidence, doesn't address my questions or highlights more problems.


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twoshots
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17 Sep 2008, 3:38 pm

Which is funny, because you just presented an oscillatory universe as the accepted model, when it is not and in fact as I stated the universe is actually accelerating in its expansion. The universe will not be crunching.


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DNForrest
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17 Sep 2008, 5:19 pm

Sling wrote:
The Big Bang, from what I gather, just occured from nothing. As in there was nothing then time, space and energy and so on just spontaneously appeared in an explosion that came from nothing. Scientists now think that the universe expands and crunches in an endless cycle or is part of a multi-verse. Either way none of these explain where everything comes from. If the Big Bang did happen, then, in my opinion, God must have started it becuase the Scientific explantions are inadequate and to suggest they are adequate isn't Science any longer but opinion and belief.

There are too many Scientific inadequacies for my liking. Biogenesis, the spontaneous generation of life from non-life, is completely impossible. Macroevolution, as in ameoba to man, has insufficient evidence and many articles used as "evidence" really really is not evidence at all. The Cambrian explosion also literally disproves the theory of common ancestry. Scientists keep also holding up false articles/fakeries as "evidence" when I know for a fact such evidence is either faked or misrepresented. I wouldn't be so opposed to Atheism/Naturalism if they just stopped trying to brainwash people and claim people are "deluded" for not believing in them.

Every time I point out these scientific inadequacies to people they're like "HURGH!! ! CREATIONIST!! !! DID SATAN DID IT?! !". How is this scientific refutation or reasoned debate? This just further highlight the rising illiteracy in Science.

People tell me to, quote, study up, unquote. I f***ing know more than them!! ! I've been reading science books all my f***ing life and they not only tell ME to study up, but then proove they know nothing about said subjects by copy and pasting walls of "evidence" they don't attempt to explain and either isn't really evidence, doesn't address my questions or highlights more problems.


The problem I have with the "Scientific Inadequacies" argument is that it's merely the argument of "I don't understand how it can happen, therefore it's wrong". Don't get me wrong, I know I sound like I'm arguing for science and against religion, because I really don't care either way, I just don't like argument devices like this. Honestly, how is explaining something by saying "God works in mysterious ways" any different than saying "Science works in mysterious ways", or "God made it so" compared to "Science made it so"? The only difference is your original opinion of either of the subject matters.



slowmutant
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17 Sep 2008, 5:31 pm

Essentially, yes.



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17 Sep 2008, 5:33 pm

I have heard this notion before, and there are some problems with it. Since the Big Bang was a state of extreme chaos, it would be impossible for anyone, even God, to predict the exact outcome of (Earth, life, humans, etc.), so if God did it, it was a roll of the dice.

Secondly, no coherent structures would survive it, meaning that if God did it, he would destroy himself in the process.



slowmutant
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17 Sep 2008, 5:40 pm

AspE wrote:
I have heard this notion before, and there are some problems with it. Since the Big Bang was a state of extreme chaos, it would be impossible for anyone, even God, to predict the exact outcome of (Earth, life, humans, etc.), so if God did it, it was a roll of the dice.

Secondly, no coherent structures would survive it, meaning that if God did it, he would destroy himself in the process.


God is omnipotent and all-knowing, all-seeing, so there wouldn't be anything He couldn't predict. God must exist outside of space & time, the universe and all the other verses therein,
where He can observe past, present, and future as one.

"I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End," God said.

This quote would suggest that God is bigger than space, longer than time.



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17 Sep 2008, 7:36 pm

AspE, since the entity God is, by definition, supernatural (that is, existing beyond nature), He/She/It/They (simply "He" for future reference) would not be constrained by the limitations of the physical universe. Therefore, it would indeed be possible for Him to survive the Big Bang, and even to foresee the possibilities inherent in the universe He created. (After all, if He existed within the universe, He could hardly have created it - He would have had to exist first, in order to do the creating.)

Sling, I don't know what cosmologists you've been talking to, but the monobloc, the singularity from which the Big Bang banged, was not subject to any laws of physics - the initial conditions were too chaotic for any laws of physics to apply until a fraction of a second after the Bang itself. It did not "come from nothing" - it came from, for lack of a better term, its own possibility (or possibly a supernatural Being saying, "Let there be light!"). No cosmologist claims to know how the Bang happened; the topic stands outside science, as it cannot be understood using the laws of the universe that came from it.

This is not the same as saying, "God did it!"; argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. Rather, this is saying that you can hold whatever beliefs you like, and no one can disprove them (or prove them - the converse holds as well, after all).

Your statements regarding evolutionary theory are unrelated - cosmology has nothing to do with biology - as well as being inaccurate (the Cambrian explosion, for instance, would be the expected outcome of the pre-Cambrian extinction, apparently caused by a sudden planetary climactic shift - most probably due to asteroidal or cometary impact), and will thus be summarioy ignored, just as I would ignore someone claiming to prove that pi was equal to exactly 3.5.


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