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Zonder
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18 Sep 2008, 5:27 am

Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”



2ukenkerl
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18 Sep 2008, 5:38 am

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) *(computers/math)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) *(one)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys *
High IQ *
High analytical and/or musical abilities *(analytical)
Extremely good memory (to photographic) *(depends)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing *(certainly USED to be the case, and sometimes is)
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others *
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers *
Late in socializing with their peers *(still really waiting)
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people *(usually)
Late in being toilet trained
Fascinated with mechanical things *
Like building things *
Like putting puzzles together *(REALLY liked it)
Strong-willed


Overlaps with characteristics of intellectually gifted and autism spectrum.


“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”


I put an asterisk by the ones that match me. I guess, given your earlier description, no, even though I only miss 3-4 of the individual criteria.



Danielismyname
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18 Sep 2008, 5:43 am

I have:

Majority are boys
High IQ
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Late in socializing with their peers
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people
Fascinated with mechanical things
Like building things
Strong-willed

None are really diagnostic pointers of an ASD, apart from "Delayed Speech Development"; "Late in socializing with their peers" is a delay in, rather than a lifelong lack of [to varying degrees]. "Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others" and "Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing" are pointers for the repetitive behaviour of AS, but in AS it is to the exclusion of things people "should" be doing to adapt to society.

Many of them are associated with an ASD, and this is where the overlap will come from.



Tohlagos
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18 Sep 2008, 5:51 am

Zonder wrote:
Economist and conservative columnist Thomas Sowell published a book in 2001 titled Einstien Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talk Late. The book was inspired by his son who had a speech delay. Sewell, and a subsequent study, found a group of children who fit the following list of characteristics. He did not believe that these children had an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but others feel that it is just a renaming of a small group of high IQ children who have Asperger's.

Item for item, the following list describes me with one exception: I had a reading delay in addition to the speech delay. I have also learned social skills and do well in art.

Does anyone else have "Einstein Syndrome" characteristics?

Z


Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) * (accounting and pharmacy)
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally
Close Relatives Who talked late (unknown)
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college)* (one)

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys*
High IQ*
High analytical and/or musical abilities*
Extremely good memory (to photographic)*
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing*
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others*
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers*
Late in socializing with their peers*
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) (unknown)
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people*
Late in being toilet trained (unknown)
Fascinated with mechanical things*
Like building things*
Like putting puzzles together*
Strong-willed*



To answer your question, yes.

Further, glad to see you back Zonder. I have not seen you post in a long time. Hope your garden turned out well this season.



Cormac_doyle
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18 Sep 2008, 5:52 am

Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism



ryry85
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18 Sep 2008, 6:05 am

well i fit with the individual pattern except for delays in speach and toilet training. i honestly think its just someone trying to narrow down to a smaller group. its like saying that 30% have blonde hair or somthing. there is absolutely no merrit in this what so ever. there are plenty of people who have become highly successful scientists or are simply "bright" people and dont fit these patterns well if at all.



2ukenkerl
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18 Sep 2008, 6:19 am

Cormac_doyle wrote:
Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism


Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
Late in being toilet trained
Strong-willed

Don't sound like AS, and "Delayed Speech Development" is specifically excluded from AS.



Apatura
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18 Sep 2008, 7:18 am

I read both of Sowell's books carefully. What he doesn't seem to understand is the concept of an autistic SPECTRUM where some children with autistic symptoms (including late talking which is (wrongfully IMO) excluded from the AS criteria) "turn out ok" in that they are able to function pretty much independently, hold down jobs, have relationships, etc..

His books are drawn from anecdotes only and not real studies.

I did enjoy the books, don't get me wrong, but he TOTALLY misses the mark when it comes to the idea of there being an autistic spectrum with varying levels of functionality.



BelindatheNobody
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18 Sep 2008, 7:40 am

I have:
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others
Late in socializing with their peers
Fascinated with mechanical things
Dislike meeting new people (Except I'm a girl.)

I'm not sure about:
Close Relatives Who talked late
High IQ
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Strong-willed
High analytical and/or musical abilities

When I was younger but not now:
Like putting puzzles together

Quote:
“Poetry, art or social skills seldom figure prominently among their interests or achievements, either as children or adults.”

I like poetry (well, I at least like writing it) and art.


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Cormac_doyle
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18 Sep 2008, 7:48 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
Cormac_doyle wrote:
Yes ... but whats the difference between this and AS ? sounds like he just doesn't want to use the word autism


Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences)
Late in being toilet trained
Strong-willed

Don't sound like AS, and "Delayed Speech Development" is specifically excluded from AS.


Never been quite sure why Delayed speech is explicitly excluded from AS ... I know that I didn't talk until I was about 3 :)



Danielismyname
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18 Sep 2008, 7:50 am

I think it was Temple who said that "geeks" are where Asperger's and Autism crosses over into normality, i.e., a spectrum. "Geek Syndrome" is synonymous with "Einstein Syndrome".

I'm not sold on the "Spectrum" idea, personally--I'm aware that there's various manifestations of symptoms and severities, but I'm more of a fan of PDDs making up several distinct disorders, rather than being the same disorder (take cancer for example, there's various types of, rather than just one type of cancer; cancer in the brain tends to be more severe than cancer of the skin).

Saying that it's a spectrum is like saying everyone with cancer has it in their brain, even though this isn't true. I see a spectrum of Autism [and its various types], of Asperger's and the same, etcetera.

(This is of course if one separates Autism and Asperger's based on how the social impairments and repetitive behaviours manifest, rather than just mixing them all together like some people do, like Attwood for example.)



Danielismyname
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18 Sep 2008, 7:53 am

A delay in the acquisition of speech isn't excluded from many countries in relation to Asperger's. Some go by how the social impairments manifest (aloof/passive for Autism; odd and eccentric/formal and stilted for AS), and some go by overall IQ alone.



Sora
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18 Sep 2008, 9:45 am

I love stuff like that...

Family Pattern

Close relatives in analytical occupation (engineer, scientist, mathematician) No
Close relatives who are musicians, sometimes professionally No
Close Relatives Who talked late No
Parents have high education level (59% four years of college) No

Individual Pattern

Majority are boys No
High IQ
High analytical and/or musical abilities
Extremely good memory (to photographic)
Unusual concentration and absorption in what they are doing No
Highly selective interests with achievement in some areas and ineptness in others No
Precocious ability to read and/or use numbers and/or use computers
Late in socializing with their peers Not late, autistic.
Delayed Speech Development (Two years and up for full sentences) No
27 % of boys dislike meeting new people If this holds true for girls too, then no.
Late in being toilet trained No
Fascinated with mechanical things No
Like building things
Like putting puzzles together
Strong-willed


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Drakilor
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18 Sep 2008, 9:57 am

This conversation disturbs me greatly. It would seem that this thread is doomed to a life of masturbatory rituals of the ego, rather than as a platform for intelligent discussion on the book and its authorship.
Given the choice, I would traverse to the science convention rather than idle at the spot, observing name droppers associating themselves with celebrities.


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MSO1729
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18 Sep 2008, 10:34 am

I have almost all of them, except I don't think I talked late.



Zonder
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18 Sep 2008, 11:06 am

Thanks for replying, everyone. Yup, Tohlagos, I took a break for a while, nice to hear from you. The garden did really well, although right now its partially submerged. We had a lot of rain last week.

Apatura wrote:
I read both of Sowell's books carefully. What he doesn't seem to understand is the concept of an autistic SPECTRUM where some children with autistic symptoms (including late talking which is (wrongfully IMO) excluded from the AS criteria) "turn out ok" in that they are able to function pretty much independently, hold down jobs, have relationships, etc..

His books are drawn from anecdotes only and not real studies.

I did enjoy the books, don't get me wrong, but he TOTALLY misses the mark when it comes to the idea of there being an autistic spectrum with varying levels of functionality.


On the subject of the Autism Spectrum, I totally agree with Apatura, and something sticks in my mind that I read early on in my research of the subject. Its a quote by Lorna Wing explaining the theory that autism "ranges from the most profoundly physically and mentally ret*d person . . . to the most able, highly intelligent person with social impairment in its subtlest form as his only disability. It overlaps with learning disabilities and shades into eccentric normality." (Quoted by Steve Silberman in Wired Magazine, Dec. 2001).

Ultimately, Kanner's, Asperger's, Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the unofficial "Einstein Syndrome", or other labeling, is the result of how brains are wired and how effectively neural impulses are transmitted. Much like cancers have dysfunction of cell division in common, brain developmental disorders / differences have a dysfunction of neurological impulses in common, without having psychosis. Those who Sowell groups as having "Einstein Syndrome" are very likely at the "higher functioning" (in some areas loosely functioning) edge of the autism bell curve, but because there are many more people nearer the center of the curve, the diagnostic criteria were written to fit the center as well as those at the lower functioning end who can't communicate and are often institutionalized.

If you are at the "functioning" end of the curve, there is often little understanding or assistance even when you have difficulties with communicating, relating to people, learning, obsessive thinking, focus, and sensitivity. You're told to tough it out, buck up, try harder, don't be so anxious, and maybe take some medications.

I read an interview with Dr. Tony Attwood not long ago, and the interviewer seemed to notice unusual behavior in him that was similar to the Autism Spectrum such as his single-mindedness. Dr. Attwood said something like, "I'm not on the spectrum, I'm just eccentric." I suppose that Autism is so incredibly debilitating, that even Dr. Attwood prefers to not have that label, even if he has enough of the wiring to include him on the end of the spectrum as Lorna Wing described it.

I vote for a new category for those spectrumites who have the wiring but don't fit the current criteria, called Spectaculum Ora Syndrome, meaning, in Latin, The Edge of the Spectrum.

Z