I am a Jew but i am not Zionist

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I maybe a jew but i am not Zionist for these 3 reasons
1. The land we took for Israel is Palestine, this was a muslim state, because we took the land from them, Zionism is actually causing more Antisemitsm, before the advent of Zionism, Jews and Muslims were living in peace and Muslims protected us in these occasions - During the time of the Crusades many muslims in power tried to protect us Jews in the Holy land (Now
Palestine) From the Crusaders atrocities against us.
In 1492 after the Spanish reconquest of the last Muslim Kingdom of Granada, The Spanish Inquisition
ordered the expulsion of all jews from Spain, When This News reached The Muslim Ottoman sultan Beyazid II, Heordered a fleet to save Jews and Muslims from spain and immigrat them to the Ottoman Empire. The sultan is said to have exclaimed thus at the Spanish monarch's lack of wisdom: "Ye call Ferdinand a wise king he who makes his land poor and ours rich!"

Also During the Time when Spain was muslim, Jews, Christian and Muslims lived in piece under the tolerant Muslim Leaders. Thios Ideology was called La Convivencia. before Zionism, it was natural for Muslim rulers to Jewish subjects to which this consideration did not apply, we have lost this trust because of Zionism, Many muslims who sound anti Semitic are not anti semitic, they are Anti Zionist, Anti Zionism is not anti-Semitism. In Iran, the Ideology of Convivencia lives today, Iran has one of the Largest communities in the Middle east, many Iranian Jews prefer to stay in Iran rather than living in the Illegimate state of Israel, Jews actually prosper in Iran, The Iranian Parliment even has a Jewish representative of the Jewish Community. the Iranian president Ahmednajad is not Anti Semitic, he is only anti Zionst. Jews also have Privelages what muslims do not have. Jews are allowed to produce there own alcohol and have mixed sex dances. taking land of what belongs to them is a really poor way to repay them for there protection of jews from persecution.

2. years After the holocaust, the pope made a pilgramige to aushwitz, this was an effort to bring christians and jews together after the persecution of the jews by christans (not al christians were oppressive) lead to the holocaust. many of the Jewish Holocust victims were devout christians, Hiter and the Nazis were very anti christian and anti-semitic. Christian were not like how they were in the past (Particularly during medieval times), now they are more reformed and place support to jews. the Nazi Antisemitism is now impotent, so why are we taking land from someone else, this is actually us asking for more antisemitism.

In conclusion, if we were to disband israel and return the land to Palestine, anti semitism would not really be a big issue any more, so Jews can live peacfully with muslims and christians like how it was in Muslim spain.

Mazel Tov! A Jew has arrived!

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Shalom,

I personally believe that anyone has the right to reside in any territory they please as long as they live in harmony with the existing populace, don't displace them, or deny them any rights. I won't have any beef with Israel if the knesset allows the Palestinian refugees to return, and remove any pro-Jewish laws such as the right to return. They can also maintain an ethnically balanced form of government, by taking inspiration from the political scenario in Bosnia & Herzegovina.

Also, there are many anti-Zionist Jews as you might know, like Neturei Karta.

The antisemitism which has resulted from the establishment of Israel is unfortunate, but unavoidable.

Peace.

good luck convincing all the christians who believe that either a) the jews need a jewish country so they can have protection or b) the jews need israel so the end of the world can come about already.


personally, i'd love to welcome all the israelis here to america. they're smart, polite, good looking people in general and i think they'd love it much better here than in israel where they have mortars and rocket fire to worry about (which point a just waved bye-bye in the context of an argument...because the jews are in more danger now than if they hadn't formed israel).

the land grab, while being politically repugnant, was relatively legit (as far as anyone can tell).

the ottoman empire had lost after WWI and france and england were given power to divide up that vast amount of land as they saw fit. the zionists lobbied to some key people in england for the creation of an israeli state in the palestinian land. this was done officially in with the 1917 balfour declaration.

they lost and they pay the price of war.

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I am actually talking about the relation with the Christians nowdays as the Anti semitism which caused the Spanish Inquisition is gone. i am not praising you for supporting israel, I know you are being kind to us jews but if you love us jews you should be Anti Zionist and against israel. i am actually praising christians from condeming the Nazi antisemitism skafather84

??


you do know i'm supporting your position of the dissolution of the state of israel, right?


listing above was just what others believe as far as protecting jews. i'd much rather live equally with jews than to treat them like an 8 year old at a nambla convention.

Of all the places to pick to create a new country and instigate aggressive immigration and land buying, the Middle East was perhaps the worst place.
Now that it is done, it can't be undone and to that extent I am not anti-Zionist. The dispersion of Israel is neither practical nor fair.

As for the policies of the Israeli government: they have learnt nothing from their own action, nor from the history of other nations.

Shalom Achi. Do you speak any Hebrew?

I'm afraid it's not that simple. I used to be an anti-Zionist until I read about the history of Antisemitism. I don't know so much about Jews in Muslim land as I do about them in Europe. Living in Dhimmitude was an acceptable situation for minorities in pre modern times, but I'm not so sure there weren't any expulsions or pogroms, I haven't read enough to sift through the BS. By the twentieth century though, the Jews were running into big problems in the Arab world.

The point of Zionism isn't to run an aparthied state on stolen land (and yes, this is the current situation,) the point is to give Jews control of their own destiny. They had to cleanse land and keep their boots on arab heads to do this. It's not moral, but the world hasn't been moral to them. If I were a Jew I'd tell the world to go f**k itself.

Antisemitism in modern times is different to pre modern antisemitism. The latter was religious, the former was political and racial. Showing some balls was is the only solution that could have worked. The Holocaust happened in one of the world's most modern countries. Antisemitism isn't the preserve of backwards countries, it's a problem in Modernity itself.

The Jews don't deserve a state, they made one. With Blood and Iron. If you think Israel will ever disband, or the jews will simply up and leave to live among the goyim, you're dead wrong.

Yes the Palestinians are getting a s**t deal, but they're just the Jews of today. That's the way the world works

it's not only immoral but it's genocide.

systematic removal and killing of an entire race is genocide.

what about an offering of a voluntary dispersion to all those who want it?


could be a way to be able to politically cut the lifeline from israel since they obviously cannot learn with others constantly acting as their muscle.

so much for "never again", huh?


or was just in the self-preservation sense of the word...which would explain why israel is such a paranoid state.

Like the spanish inquisition gave the catholics a bad name, and the Taliban gave the Muslims a bad name, Zionism is doing the same effect by giving us Jews a bad name. i would prefer to live in peace under Muslim or Christian rule and face some restrictions (e.g. pay a special Tax) than to take Palestine from the Palestinians

Special tax? Restrictions? What for?

No, it's ethnic cleansing, the Holocaust was a genocide.

Offer a self dispersion if you want to pay for it yourself, but don't expect a good response. Have you ever met an Israeli. They don't need or ask anyone to look after them. They get $3 billion per annum from America for their army, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big a sum. I'm not sure of the percentage, but Google Israeli military expenditure for yourself and see for yourself.

Never Again was just self preservation. What's wrong with self preservation? Who else is going to protect the Jews if not themselves?

ethnic clensing is a euphamism for genocide...it's the PR friendly version of it. ask the serbs about it sometime.



i will when i have a chance. though you specifying just $3bil to their army sounds like a semantic workaround for how much assistance is actually given.





nothing wrong with self-preservation...it's just hypocritical that they still maintain that motto as they essentially do what was done to them not even 4 whole generations ago.

i'd much rather that it be taken as self-preservation and a reminder of what humanity can do to ANYONE not just to jews.