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slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 11:31 am

Why did they choose such an obvious appropriation as their symbol? I realize that the Christian Cross is not itself an "origninal" symbol, but it has represented our faith long enough to have gained a certain legitimacy, It think. tI's like what the Nazi Germany did to the Hindu Swastika. Just how wrong or right is it, this appropriation of ancient symbols by relatively new movements? Comapred to Hinduism, probably the world's oldest religion, how much legitimacy does the Nazi movement actually have?

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:zli ... _cross.jpg

Scientology Cross


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gOD ... ns.svg.png

Christian Cross



Fnord
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11 Jan 2009, 11:34 am

Scientology has no legitimacy of its own, so they must instead appropriate the legitimacy of others - even if it is the Christian church.


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slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 11:46 am

Fnord wrote:
Scientology has no legitimacy of its own, so they must instead appropriate the legitimacy of others - even if it is the Christian church.


Yes, that's what I'm saying. But if Christians are universally reviled, the cross takes on many unintended meanings. It loses it's meaning.



Tim_Tex
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11 Jan 2009, 12:51 pm

Why are Christians reviled?



slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 1:05 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Why are Christians reviled?


That's an odd question for a WrongPlanet member to ask. :?



z0rp
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11 Jan 2009, 1:21 pm

slowmutant wrote:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gODwjVdmgk2kRM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Christian_cross_trans.svg/417px-Christian_cross_trans.svg.png

Christian Cross

Pagan Cross*

Christians weren't the first to use the cross as their symbol, nor will they be the last as this topic shows.



slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 2:52 pm

That's the way of things, I think. Who decides what a symbol means and for how long it retains that meaning? Society does. Human beings collectively. If a good-luck symbol can be bastardized into an emblem of hate, there's nothing that can't be changed into anytihng else, as far as symbols go.

Symbols sure are neat!



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11 Jan 2009, 3:14 pm

The Scientology Cross comes from the writings of Aleister Crowley, the early 20th century occultist, whose theories greatly interested L. Ron Hubbard. Crowley put an "x" over the cross to indicate a negation of the cross, ie Satan. Sometimes it's called a "crossed out cross", and in Crowley's writings it had about the same meaning as an upside down cross. It's less obvious though. So basically Miscavige is admitting that Scientology is a church of Satan. A fascination with Satan was a common thread throughout Hubbard's life, sometimes he worshipped Satan, sometimes he thought he WAS Satan. In the original Operating Thetan Level 8, Hubbard calls himself the Antichrist, not by name but in so many words. In Hubbard's upside down theories, the antichrist is the actual savior of mankind, and defeats Jesus, who is an evil alien. It's all quite weird.



slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 5:22 pm

Quote:
Crowley put an "x" over the cross to indicate a negation of the cross,


That never occurred to me, but it does make sense.

So Scientology is a satanic religion?



history_of_psychiatry
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11 Jan 2009, 5:29 pm

I have seen many people wearing the $cientology cross who weren't $cientologist. I think that L Ron was just too lame to make an original symbol for his cult.


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slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 5:36 pm

history_of_psychiatry wrote:
I have seen many people wearing the $cientology cross who weren't $cientologist. I think that L Ron was just too lame to make an original symbol for his cult.


I've seen many people wearing the Christian cross who obviously aren't Christians.

Hip-hop gangbangers often wear it as part of their "bling" ensemble, and this really annoys me.



history_of_psychiatry
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11 Jan 2009, 6:13 pm

slowmutant wrote:
history_of_psychiatry wrote:
I have seen many people wearing the $cientology cross who weren't $cientologist. I think that L Ron was just too lame to make an original symbol for his cult.


I've seen many people wearing the Christian cross who obviously aren't Christians.

Hip-hop gangbangers often wear it as part of their "bling" ensemble, and this really annoys me.


Rap is VERY annoying. Most rappers don't even write their own lyrics, let alone music. It isn't poetry, it isn't music. It's ear-molesting garbage. "Yo, foo, I is gonna pimp out ma ride kuz and gets lotsa bling bling." Gimme a freakin break.


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11 Jan 2009, 6:23 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
Crowley put an "x" over the cross to indicate a negation of the cross,


That never occurred to me, but it does make sense.

So Scientology is a satanic religion?


Not quite. Like he said Hubbard was a fan of Crowley, and absorbed some of his 'teachings' in his occult meanderings. Satanic aspects here and there in terms of symbolism and idols, but not really on the basic premise. The basic premises of the 'mythology' itself are re-incarnation, and space opera.


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slowmutant
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11 Jan 2009, 6:40 pm

pheonixiis wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
Crowley put an "x" over the cross to indicate a negation of the cross,


That never occurred to me, but it does make sense.

So Scientology is a satanic religion?


Not quite. Like he said Hubbard was a fan of Crowley, and absorbed some of his 'teachings' in his occult meanderings. Satanic aspects here and there in terms of symbolism and idols, but not really on the basic premise. The basic premises of the 'mythology' itself are re-incarnation, and space opera.


Right, right.



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11 Jan 2009, 7:42 pm

Meh ... it's all the same.

One religion calls its devil "Satan" and his minions "Demons", while another called their devil "Xenu" and his minions "Thetans."

One uses exorcism to remove these demons, while another uses auditing to remove theirs.

One takes money in regular collections, while the other takes money in easy installments.

I mean ... religion is religion is religion ... et cetera, ad nauseum ... :eew:


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11 Jan 2009, 8:08 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Why did they choose such an obvious appropriation as their symbol? I realize that the Christian Cross is not itself an "origninal" symbol, but it has represented our faith long enough to have gained a certain legitimacy, It think. tI's like what the Nazi Germany did to the Hindu Swastika. Just how wrong or right is it, this appropriation of ancient symbols by relatively new movements? Comapred to Hinduism, probably the world's oldest religion, how much legitimacy does the Nazi movement actually have?

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:zli ... _cross.jpg

Scientology Cross


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:gOD ... ns.svg.png

Christian Cross


oldest religion?
i think paganism is far older then hinduism :roll:
just my understanding, being a pagan you know