Apathy, independence, and lack of empathy

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My partner and I are constantly butting heads regarding my 12 year old Aspie son. My partner and I have been together for 1.5 years and have been through many ups and downs regarding my son.

My partner is now convinced that my son knows exactly what he is supposed to do and just doesn't care enough to do it. She feels he is spoiled and a jerk because he only wants to do what he wants, not his chores, homework or typical self care things like brushing his teeth. She feels he is disrepectful and just rushes through things to get them done. As of today, my son has been grounded for almost two months. Our therapist recommended grounding him for only one day, but then he messes up again and ends up grounded. He is not allowed to watch TV, play video games, or draw. He can only do homework, chores, and social activities we choose for him. My partner feels he needs to learn to think for himself without us telling him how to do everything. My partner was great for my son when we first got together, but her discipline tactics and attitudes have grown increasingly disturbing.

My son takes Tae Kwon Do twice a week, but she wants to pull him from that activity because he doesn't "do his best" all the time. I have no idea what my son's best is anymore. When I try to suggest we need to let up on him, my partner tells me I need to stay tough. I'm not so sure.

I am tired of hearing that my son just doesn't care. We are supposed to be focusing on the positive, but it seems we only focus on the negative of "he doesn't care. He just wants to do what he wants."

I'm tired of this. I'm trying to find some sort of solution that will help my 12 year old accomplish tasks correctly, help him be more independent, and yet eliminates this stressor of constantly criticizing and yelling at him. We already have multiple lists, charts and a box of cards with detailed instructions for each task. I suggested a planner type thing with pictures reminding my son what he needs to do, but my partner feels this is a waste of time, since he already has things written out for him.

She has real issues because my son doesn't really think of others before himself, and no matter how much I try to explain that this is an asperger's trait. She still yells at my son anytime he does something selfish and insincere. He has now taken to "lying" to get out of trouble, and this just infuriates her more. My son has poor executive function skills, but has shown that he can do things perfectly with the right motivation. Most of the time he just doesn't seem to want to.

Does anyone have suggestions? I'm really starting to get desperate, and I'm afraid of the blow-ups at home.

The only suggestion I have is one you are not going to like: break up with your partner. She is getting increasingly controlling, by the sounds of it, and is HARMING YOUR CHILD emotionally. There are red flags all over your post; it goes beyond just a missunderstanding of what AS is.

I don't expect you to be able to reach such a leap by just reading this. But you do need to do SOMETHING, and a good start might be meeting with a therapist on your own, without her present, to sort through your feelings about the situation and devise strategies for dealing with it.

You are in a much more difficult position than most people are going to give you credit for, but do take it seriously, and try to stand strong. Remember what you know and who you are; don't allow her to get you questioning all that. This is a crucial time for your son, and he needs you to see clearly and get this negativity out of his life.

people tend to blame all behavioral differences on the individual. she seems to have done this w your son, she logically knows about his condition, but her emotions gets out first every time, and punishes him for being what he is.

i have to aggree w above. break up, OR at least confront her with this:
he has aspergers. there is NO reason why he MUST be "the best" in stuff, having AS he should be happy he reaches mediocreness in most social occations anyway...
let her know, that if she doesnt take his condition seriously, you have no choise but to put his mental health BEFORE your relationship.

Hello tayana.

I can't tell you exactly what is wrong with your son, but i can give you some information as to what might be the problem and things you should look at.

People on the autism spectrum are usually highly alexithymic. Alexithymia is a personality trait. You can read about it here. Basically speaking, it's a persons ability to identify how they feel. It doesn't cause problems on it's own, but if there is an underlying cause to your son's behaviour, alexithymia can exacerbate and hide it. For example, some autistic people avoid social situations, they don't realise they are anxious around new people. This makes it very hard for the individual to correct the problem on their own because they cannot see the problem, they can only see the resulting behaviour.

Learned helplessness can be a problem for people on the autism spectrum as well. You can read about it here. The article is a little negative, suggesting that people use it as an excuse for their failiures. In truth, learned helplessness is mostly subconcious. If you veiw something as out of your control, you lose all motivation to try and change it. For example, i myself am diagnosed with obsessive compulsive personality disorder. For me, there is only one way to do many activities and they MUST be done that way. It bothers me to see other people doing them wrong. I find it hard to work with other people because of this. I also find it hard to do a fair share of the chores around my house because of this as well. The system my family uses for the washing up is incorrect, i can't use there system, i can't change the way i do things, it's completely out of my control, therefore i can't do the washing up. As i've grown older, and because i was undiagnosed for most of my life, i've learnt to be helpless for many things.

Sameness and routine can be very important for people on the spectrum. I can function very well with a routine, but if something in my routine changes, it can break my routine. When this happens i am like a fish out of water, and i cannot function properlly. I will usually resort to doing things that are very easy, or things that have a clear short-term reward. When i was younger this was mistaken for laziness and not caring. This can be important for learned helplessness as well.

It's very possible that your son is depressed. It might sound strange to you, to think that a 12 year old could be depressed, but it's very easy when you are autistic. It's not the easiest of lives, and we usually get treated extremely poorly by most people we meet. People don't see the underlying reasons for our behaviour and they make faulty assumptions. We also get blamed for things that aren't our fault, it all adds up. You might want to read this as it's a possbility.

I know my examples are rather esoteric, but it's the idea's and not the examples that are important. If your son is alexithymic, then you'll probably have to act like a detective to find out what the problem is.

It's very important that you stop punishing your son. This ties in with the learned helplessness. When i was younger i never knew why i couldn't do things, it's only now that a pyscologist explained to me my problems that things made sense. When i was younger i never knew about alexithymia, i never knew about personality disorders, everything seemed so impossible, why even attempt to do impossible things? and then on the few occasions i did manage to actually try, i got it wrong. I got punished for getting it wrong. By punishing your son, you achieve nothing and you make him even more dependant on you. Try and find out the underlying causes and encourage him. You'll need to think positively, because negative thoughts and actions towards your son (From anyone) will only make things worse.

Haha sorry if i misunderstood your post with that huge reply. I agree with the other two, if you're partner cannot stop blaming and punishing your son then you need to break up.

I should rephrase my original post slightly. My partner loves my son deeply, but she has become increasingly frustrated with his behavior. Things that work with NT kids don't with him, and she's trying to understand this. We are looking into social skills classes and a new counselor.

The article about alexithymia describes my son perfectly, and also myself. My inability to describe my feelings accurately irritates my partner. She doesn't like that I don't get excited over things that make me happy and strongly dislikes my realistic world view.

My son has a lot of learned helplessness. We lived with my mom for 10 years and she refused to let him do anything for himself. He's just now starting to do many things on his own.

Again, this describes my son perfectly, and myself to a degree. It's this that irritates her, that my son can function very well for several days and do everything right, and then some little thing goes wrong, or he forgets something, and she doesn't understand why he just falls apart.

I'm afraid I gave the wrong impression with my earlier post. I'm just wanting ideas that will help us work better as a family. I don't think leaving my partner is the answer. We are wanting to encourage my son to be more independent and less dependent on us to tell what and how to do things. We are all struggling with this right now.

Does she read? I would give her things to read, especially things that are written by autistic people, like Temple Grandin for example. I got a lot of insight from her. I would suggest this website but you may need it for support. If there is a support group in your area, see if she can hook into that. If she meets other parents raising AS kids then it could give you some validation and hopefully will change her perspective. She just needs to look at this a different way.

It is very hard to learn and understand AS if you are NT.

Good Luck!

She does read, and I"ve been sending her a lot of articles I've found lately. She's just frustrated that they are more analysis than solution. My son is not a typical Aspie. Many things that are Aspie traits, he just doesn't have, and so at times he can seem very NT, except in social situations.

I've always heard that aspies can't lie and aren't manipulative, but my son lies very well and can be very manipulative. He likes to make people feel sorry for him. He frequently does this at school, so his teachers often let him out of the natural consequences for not turning in work or failing a test. They'll give him extra credit which invalidates the bad score.

He can make things sound like everyone is mean to him and picks on him, but he refuses to do any sort of coping strategies to avoid those situations. This is why things are so frustrating with him. He likes attention, even negative attention, so he'll do whatever he can to get it. He wants to be social, but he can't understand why other kids his age don't want to discuss dinosaurs and paleontology. HIs goal is to be a paleontologist, and i think he can do it. He just has to start learning some coping skills.

I also have many aspie traits, so I can empathize with him, but I did learn coping strategies. I have severe social anxiety, unlike my son. I just can't seem to convey to him how important it is that he needs to learn to function in an NT world.

My partner is the kind of person who plans things out to the minute months before they happen. My son and I arent'. I'm lucky if I can figure out a menu plan for the week. My son is lucky to get through the day. I can set long term goals without a problem, but I can't seem to plan out the steps to get to that goal. My son is very similar.

I have a question. You said in your first post that you had an idea you thought might help your son, but she dismissed it as "a waste of time." That is one of the things that got to me; if you want to try something, why can't she support it? It's your time, not hers.

You say she is the type of person that plans every little thing months out in advance. What happens when things go off course? How does she react?

What I worry about is this: your son can't conform to her expectations of him, and that causes her stress. Her reaction to stress is to try harder to gain that conformity. Her need to have every little thing planned and acting as planned increases. That stresses your son because he isn't capable of acting in the way she desires. That stresses her and her natural reaction is to pull the reigns tigher still. It's going to be like a never ending cycle, with both of them reacting in their natural ways to the stress the other causes them, and that reaction will only increase the friction.

But not only does the friction increase between them, her need to gain control over the situation causes her to push on you as well. Her subconcsious need to control you increases in reaction to the loss of control she feels elsewhere.

Perhaps I shouldn't have jumped straight out to a conclusion in my first response, but there seem to be quite a few moving parts going on in your family, and one of those moving parts is that you seem to be feeling less confident in your parenting, and about your own conclusions. Is that a fair assessment? Is this relationship making you feel stronger as a person, or weaker? Think about it some.

Everyone comes with baggage. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, but it can create a toxic situation if the mixture of baggage involves the wrong ingredients. All the love in the world can't stop the explosion if the chemicals involved are determined to make one. THAT is what I worry about in your family. Not that either of you don't love, but that there are dynamics that are beyond both of you.

How does it go when you meet with a therapist as a family? DO you meet as a family? Who controls the conversation? Do you feel free to make every last single observation you might make?

My advice to see a therapist on your own to sort things out stands. It won't have to lead to a break up, but you do need to see and understand the patterns that are going on in your housefhold. Not just for your son's sake, but also your own.

Something is up with her or you haven't explained it well enough. Is she competing for attention with him?

Why is she interfering with Tae Kwon Do? Is she the instructor? A good teacher will help him learn at his own pace. That is how it is at my martial arts. I used to be all over the place.

Disclaimer: My use of "You" and "Your" isn't directed at the poster only but at the "coupledom" that the poster and his partner represent. Since couples need to act singly, I'm treating it singly.

IMHO, you're being too tough on your son.

Example: Removing him from a class because you don't feel that he's doing his best.
You're not qualified to know his reasons. You're not mind readers. Perhaps he is doing his best - in which case, you're setting him up for a terrible blow to his self esteem. Perhaps he's got other things going on in his life which are distracting him. Perhaps Tai Kwon Do is an outlet for him - in which case removing it would be bad.

Another example;

Do you think you'd appreciate this kind of treatment? What would it do to your self esteem? Isn't this the kind of thing that people fight for freedom over?


I'm sorry but from your post, it seems that the "you" partnership is damaging to the child. I'd strongly recommend that you either change the terms of the partnership - or if necessary, terminate it.

What came straight to my mind (like o equals true) is that she is plain old fashioned jealous.

Im sure your son consumes many hours of your day, and many hours of your love and attention. Maybe she is finding that difficult to handle, and not your son. I have seen this so many times with NT kids also. Especially when the new partner into the family is a woman.

Id say if you could make a little more special time for her, she may be more forgiving and understanding of your son. If you show her that you support her (within reason) in helping to raise your son, life would be nicer.

Its not easy for her to take on another man's child, espically if the child has additional needs. While she is going about it all the wrong way, and making the situation worse at home and maybe doing some lasting emotional damage to your son. You have taken the first step by recognising it, and looking for change.

You need to fight for your son, no one will love or understand him the way you do. But you clearly want this relationship to work, and if she changes her ways, it would be nice for your son to have a female mother figure around.

You can work it out, but maybe start by having more time together as a couple. When you are both together on this with your sons best interest at heart, you will probably find that he starts to become a bit more independant with more love and understanding from both of you.

Good Luck xx

Hey sorry, I just jumped to conclusions there. I assumed you were his Dad!! Hope I didnt offend.

But my advice is still the same xx

she sounds abusive and controlling. you can not tell your kids to do something, you have to teach them to want to do it themselves. i see u developed some dysfunctional family dynamics with your partner and your child. i recommend you read The Family Crucible for starters. You have to set limits for your kid, but you two are plain tyrannical parents.

What about positive reinforcement, instead of negative? If he does everything on his chart for the day, he gets something he wants (choice of what movie the family will watch, playing his favorite board game, a book about dinosaurs, whatever) instead of having things taken away for NOT doing everything right.

The idea I had that my partner declared a waste of time was to create a visual chart of daily activities, but she feels it's a waste of time because he already has a written list and an index card for each activity with steps written on it. He still "forgets" things that are on his list. I suggested making a planner with a formal schedule and pictures of the tasks. Her comment to me was that, he knows how to brush his teeth, but he doesn't do it. How will that help him brush his teeth.

I personally hate the list. I think it is totally ineffective. We've tried different versions of it. The earlier ones involved us having to check off items on the list. I could never remember to do that at the end of the day.

Yes, there is a certain amount of jealousy here. My partner and I have issues because she wants to be touched and reassured constantly, and I am not the kind of person who touches and reassures every minute of the day.

We have tried positive reinforcement. DS would do things like empty the dishwasher of dirty dishes and put clean ones on top of the dirty ones so he could do whatever he wanted.

I hate what is going on right now, but it does seem to be the only way to get some semblance of respect from DS. Otherwise he blatantly ignores everything he's told to do and backtalks constantly. I want him to be able to do things he enjoys, but truthfully, he makes no effort to try and earn them. We have tried telling him, if you get your homework and chores done, you can draw for a little while. He'll then spend 2 hours completing his work and then it's bedtime. So he doesn't get to draw.

My partner can be controlling. She likes to be in control of everything, and we frequently have words about it. We both came from abusive backgrounds. My son and I lived with my abusive mother for ten years. She let my son do whatever he wanted, when he wanted and gave him absolutely no consequences or responsiblities. He no respect for anything I told him when we moved. I could tell him to clean his room and he would hide things, lie to me, yell at me, hit me, etc.

I have tried to explain to my partner that maybe DS is giving his best. She's trying to accept that. I don't intend to remove him from TKD, because it seems to be a destressor for him.

We do see a therapist together as a family and it's helped to overcome some of the control issues we've had with each other. We're still working on them. We aren't trying to be tyrannical or abusive here. We are trying to teach a 12 year old child appropriate behavior and boundaries. I didn't realize asking for help would basically make our family sound like an abuse pit.

We have problems like all families do. When DS is "on" we have a great family dynamic. he just hasn't been "on" lately. Instead, he's lying, stealing, and being very disrespectful. I wanted suggestions that might help me, instead of criticisms.