Why do I freeze up when she gets angry?

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I am an Aspie married to an NT. I love my wife very much but lately she has been havign a hard time coping with my issues. I don't notice when things are wrong with her unless she tells me, and even then I am emotionally unaffected by the news. She has been feeling depressed lately and after not livign up to some unexpresed expectations of the day, she got very angry with me. Basically had a meltdown. She does this occasionally. She lets things build up until she cant take it anymore. Adn then she blows up at me and I cant seem to make myself respond in anyway that would appear loving. I cant even seem to be able to hug her and tell her everythign is alright. The figh tusually ends up with her getting set off by something I did which becomes completely overblown, so I automatically go into defense mode because I think that if I can explain myself then surely she would see that she is being unreasonable to be this mad. Eventually she will reveal that she isnt really mad about the event, but it was a catalyst to the real issue (depression, distance in me, not communicating, etc) So by time I find out that its really an issue with her, I am already too far offended to just let it go. I cant just switch gears like that after she gets me all worked up.

So what happens is that she needs me and just has a real bad way of expressign her emotional needs to me. I have to tell you that when she blows up it is a major blow up, I get intimidated and completely clam up. If I do say anything she accuses me of lying when I say I love her or anything else that should be encouraging. I apparently come across as phoney. I suppose I do have some trouble with understanding and appreciatign someoens emotions. I cant expect her to just deal like I am able to with my emotions. I feel like even reaching out to hug her would be the wrong thing to do. So instead I do absolutely nothing, which can only look like I dont care at all. I dont know what to do in these situations. I get so flusterred by not beign able to react to her correctly that eventually I get to the point where I feel like I dont really care about her pain anymore. It's kinda like a self fulfilling thing for her. She accuses me of not caring to the point where I dont care to hear about it anymore.

We have been married 15 years and have 4 boys. She convinced me of my aspergers after havign one of my sons diagnosed. She saw the same patterns in me, the more she began to understand about aspies. At first it was relievign to her but now she says she is just tired of how hard it is to deal with me. She says she just wants to live. I dont want to lose my marriage, and it scares me that aspies have an 80% divorce rate. Sometimes I wonder if I am gonna be able to make it all the way with her.

If I can learn to stop reacting at the first outburst and see thru the anger to the pain underneath, I would be much better off, but then again I would probably be NT if I could do that. How does an AS learn how to appear intuitive? She tries to tel me things that she wants me to do for her emotionally, she says it in a way that I can understand and as soon as I finally understand it seems she changes the rule on me again.

Sorry I keep bouncing all around. I really am just askign one question but I am tryign to give good background to go by, plus I guess Im probably venting too. This is my first post on WP.

From what you've written it definitely looks like there's more going on than just your AS. In spite of her understanding of autism, she seems to be making a pig's ear of dealing with it. Perhaps she's too closely involved with the problem to see it clearly?

I don't know what to suggest - maybe some counselling would be helpful? If it keeps happening, I'd be tempted to refuse to hear any more of her aggression except in the presence of another responsible adult. There's a difference between closing your ears to naked abuse and closing them to genuine complaints.

Possibly she's simply at a low ebb and doesn't appreciate the harm she's doing - looking after a child with AS and having a partner with the same condition can certainly take it out of a person, and sheer tiredness can make monsters of the best of us.

I saw myself in some of your writing. My wife has often got very aggressive with me, and seems to have no clue about how to negotiate and resolve differences in a conciliatory atmosphere of mutual respect - all I get is what looks like guilt-tripping and negativity. While we were living apart it would regularly take her 3 days to cool off after losing her temper about this or that, and I often used to wonder why the hell I was paying the phone bill to listen to what amounted to little more than a punishment.

I hope somebody manages to get her to see the harm she's doing - it sounds like you've got it even worse than I have - she probably doesn't yet see her behaviour as anybody watching it would - again, she might behave herself better with a counsellor watching, it's amazing how bad a person's behaviour can get when they feel nobody else is watching. Familiarity can breed contempt without anybody realising it's happened, but I think it's usually possible to put it right.

I don't know how your temper is - I'm a very calm person on the outside, though inside it's not quite that simple, and I often wish I could allow myself the luxury of thoughtlessly railing against people. Sometimes I think that a calm exterior can attract more nastiness from people than they'd show if the person they were dealing with were a little more volatile themselves, but I seem to be inexorably serene and stoical.

If it's any help, a lot of women can be practically impossible to deal with when there's a conflict (though I believe there are many notable exceptions, and I know that men aren't always so great at resolving things, so I don't want to generalise too much). I suspect the answer lies in not taking their outpourings too seriously, but to rise above the mindless flak and ponder what might really be going on. But like you, when I've been treated badly like that, I don't want to, as if would feel like embracing the very kind of behaviour I detest, and encouraging more of it.

But I'd try not to simply hit back....and I'd try to reassure her that you're interested in her complaints if she can express them without taking out her anger on you.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted your post - naturally much of what I've said is guesswork.

Welcome to WP, shardoin!

You don't have to be NT to learn how to stop reacting to your wife's outbursts. It's just that with AS, learning that won't come naturally, it'll come with a lot of experience actually trying to figure it out and allowing yourself to make mistakes in the process. You're hesitant to hug her... what happens if you do? You mention that you get intimidated and that you clam up when she has a blow up, or that you respond by telling her that you love her "or anything else that should be encouraging." Do you tell her that you are sorry? Aspies in problem scenarios very often go into fight-or-flight mode, they either fight back directly, thus escalating the whole thing, or become defensive and/or evasive to try to get out of the situation as quickly as possible. Your clamming up is your way of being defensive, while your reactive "I love you"s are your way of being evasive. This is why your wife interprets your "I love you" as being phony: in her mind, she wants you to start preventing problems before they occur, rather than always reacting to problems whenever they occur, and she probably thinks if you were genuine in your love that you would do more of the former and less of the latter. Also, NTs in interpersonal relationships do not always see things in terms of fight-or-flight, they think also about negotiation and mutual benefit (most of the time heh), so you absolutely need to learn how to get out of fight-or-flight mode if you're ever going to be able to compromise with your wife about the issues. Similarly, she needs to learn how to handle things so as not to invoke fight-or-flight so easily on your part. Without this compromise happening, it's hard to see these things working out in the end.

Unfortunately, with Aspies a lot of lessons can only be learned the hard way, despite what anybody else says or does. AS folks tend not to fully understand the gravity of a problematic situation until they experience it firsthand, and it's this reactive attitude that frustrates a lot of NTs in close quarters as NTs can see these problems coming seemingly from miles away. Though not absolute, NTs often have better natural foresight than AS folks (and to an extreme this foresight can border on prejudice), but the flipside is that AS folks have better natural hindsight (which at its own extreme results in a practically paralyzing overanalysis of which we've all seen so much on WP!). Only life experience can help bridge the gap between these two sides, so AS folks can develop foresight by drawing on an ever-increasing pool of experience and learning. Unless you know already from past experience, you're not going to understand your wife's frustration with not having her needs met, until you experience yourself not having your own needs met. Once you experience that frustration yourself, you'll then be able to relate to what she goes through as an NT in an AS family, and you'll have a better understanding of what must be done on your part to improve your relationship. Of course not all the work is yours alone; she has to learn that freaking out and having purely emotional responses every time she gets frustrated is not going to help things, so if she is able to start making some rational approaches to situations, that would help things out significantly as well.

You two might benefit by taking some time away from each other to think about things, and both of you can evaluate what the other person really means to you. Only then can both of you come up with constructive ways to compromise, and actually be able to show to each other what the other person means.

I appreciate the replies. It is nice to find a place where people can really relate to what I am saying.

I used to never have a temper until I was encouraged to explore my emotions and learn to experience them, I dont think it was a good idea really. I still dont understand what I am feeling and evenmore, how to apply it correctly in life. I still prefer to avoid emotion. The fight or flight perspective is interesting to me, I hadnt thought abotu it before. I think my motivation is to get to peace as quickly as possible. I will try to resolve the problem if possible but when that just returns with more insults and accusations (possibly only from my perspective) then my next step is to just end it as quickly as possible. I will then clam up in order to maximize her time for venting. Then I will respond with reassuring words, like I'm sorry, or I love you, which are all true statements.
Ultimately if she isnt willing to give any room in the argument beyond that then I start to feel like a bear who wants to retreat into his cave. I heard a wise man say once to the ladies, don't follow a bear into his cave unless your only intention is to provoke an attack. My wife is not one to allow me a cooling off period, she cant distinguish from takign a break, and avoiding the conversation completely.
There are also practical problems that get in the way, she seems to start the fight right before I have to leave for work (probably provoked by her natural distaste for beign alone, and subconscously resenting me for leaving her for that time) or she will want to talk when I am dead tired and needing to sleep. As a side, I find it interesting that I always seem to get really exhausted when she fights with me, I am sure its a defense mechinism but it's kind of a wierd one to me. Never been able to shake it.
I am normally a very calm person. My blood pressure has always run low. She is demanding that I seek out help to find ways to learn how to relate to her on the level she needs me to. I am scared that it may be impossible for me to. I can understand learnign body language and stuff like that but how does an Aspie learn how to be intuitive? How do I learn how to empathize? I have no problem sympathizing but I cant force myself to feel the same emotion she is feeling. I can understand that life is hard for her but she only has to communicate with one aspie, well two in my son, but that is on another level. She forgets that I have to deal with a lot more NT's than she has to deal with Aspies. I suffer with not understandign alot more people than she does. I go thru this every hour of every day, she can always get real conversation with her friends. True, she did not know about this when we married, but it's not like I am a different man.
Actually she does say that I changed the day we got married. I can only guess that when we were single I had every night to go home and be myself, when I got married I was thrust into a world that was no longer just mine. For years I no longer had my own time to recharge. And she could never understand why I needed a break from her. I'm sure it felt very rejecting to her. At the same time she wouldn't give me my time alone so my ability to cope wore very thin. I think that was what changed when we got married. If I am charged up I can perform very well in an NT world. But when I am worn out mentally from AS I can barely muster a polite hello to anyone.

We do need counseling but I am leary of going to anyone who doesnt intimately understand AS. I am also leary of going anywhere outside of christian counseling so that really limits my options. There just isnt a whole lot out there for adult aspies. I'm sure as the children grow up, the industry will as well. But my marriage cant wait that long.

Yes, welcome aboard
I certainly can relate to your experiences - there are a lot of parallels with my own.

Your description of how you try to resolve conflicts is very much like my own, and it clearly gets you no further than it gets me. I try hard to aprroach a conflict with resolution in mind, but it always feels as if my wife just doesn't want that, and fails to rise to the occasion when I try to lead us to any kind of compromise or agreement. Either I'm somehow missing the point, or she has issues that are blocking any hope of fixing our problems. As in your case, I have little success with letting my feelings rip, feelings are still very woolly - I can often work out how I felt after the event, but at the time I often have no clue, and I fear the result of "just letting go," and I think it quite likely that I'm wise to be careful in that regard, even if it means I don't display much immediacy - sure it would be great to be like that, but the only times I've got anywhere near it have been when the other person or people created an atmosphere in which I felt very secure.

It doesn't sound like your wife or mine are very adept at creating such an atmosphere - the archetypical case I remember was the only time in my life when I went down with stress so intense as to need tranquillisers (it was all centred on a scary situation at work which was wiping be out emotionally), and she just angrily laid into me with her own issues as if I had no problems of my own at all. I just couldn't understand how anybody could be so selfish and inept as to do that. She's not often that vicious, but it happened, and similar things keep happening, though probably not quite on that level. I often suspect it's my awareness of her capabilities in that respect that do more damage to my ability to be immediate and loving towards her than any autism problem in me. And I sometimes wonder if it's my own fault for allowing it - after all, we have no children to consider.

I seem to have strayed from my original intention of talking about your predicament, and instead have talked about mine - I hope you won't see that as being too off-topic or unhelpful, just that we do seem to have rather similar experiences, so hopefully it'll be useful somehow. Frankly I haven't told many "tales out of school" before, and I've no wish to use this thread to show my wife in a bad light - she has many good points. I'll try to write more later about your situation, as a number of things you said interested me greatly. I could just play safe and delete it, but I think I'll take a chance and hit the "send" button.

I think you could well be right. Sometimes people find it better to provoke a fight than to be "ignored" - though it's probably not a conscious thing. It would terrify me, getting delayed for work like that, or being kept awake when I'm worn out. I also wonder if she might be unconsciously trying to get you to show anger - interpreting your calmness as an uncaring attitude? John Cleese told an interesting story of a girlfriend he kept finding himself being really nasty to - he was perplexed at his own behaviour at the time, and much later on he figured that it had probably been because she was so nice and placid to him, which had caused him to try and goad her into showing some anger or spirit.


I agree, you probably won't be able to bend yourself to relating on her prescribed level. She sounds very insecure.....as if she can't quite get the point that to get what she wants from you, I suspect she needs to broaden her parameters and look for reassurance on terms that you stand some chance of achieving, instead of getting stuck in the same cycle. It's like she's banging against a brick wall instead of looking for the door. Perhaps she's got "stuck" on a point in her past somewhere, where something of the same flavour happened, and now she's recycling it over and over.......assuming that kind of psychoanalytical thing really happens. I've heard that it does. Just a guess.

One possible tip is to try and distract her out of the cycle, change the subject onto something she's likely to be very interested in. Often a mistake I make is to stick faithfully to whatever subject my wife has opened with, and give my view of it, which usually just perpetuates the misery. What I should do is to (e.g.) suddenly ask her a question about herself, or say or do anything to put a break in the loop. Because her agenda is futile, if I interpret the situation right. She seems to be focussing on nothing but the angst of what can't be done and ignoring what can be done, and in so doing she's forcing both of you into pain. Sometimes, to get North you have to go South.


If she can't cite an earlier time when you were truly any different, then you have a very strong point.


Ah, that would account for it. My need for space from my first wife was similarly thrown into sharp focus when we got married. But she must realise that there have to be spaces between even the most loving couple. It can feel like a terrible rebuff for one partner to notice that the other "doesn't want to be with them" at times, but 24/7 togetherness would be a strain on anybody. She should be careful what she wishes for - because if she actually got it, she'd realise it wasn't what it looks like when it's not on offer.


I think there are some Christian resources for AS, but I don't know how extensive they are, or how good they are. A lot of the Relate counsellors in the UK are Christians (though they tend to keep that quiet), and some of them understand AS. And if it's any help, a good counsellor would never do anything to fly in the face of a client's religion. Some of the Relate people are good. Why not try something, without worrying too much about who it is, and if you smell a rat, you can always back out and look for another.
If you try googling "Christian Aspergers counselling" you'll get a lot of hits.
And there are some Christians on WP who might be able to help you.

I am grateful for your insight diamond. Are you currently married, how long now? Was your first marriage ended because of the AS?

She seems to be calming down since yesterday, she is actually gettign a bit playful but that is her way. She vents and then dumps it. It is becoming a pattern. She grew up in a family where they would blow up at each other, get very nasty, and then get together next week for dinner like nothing happened. In my family we talked rationally and calmly about painful issues. Shpwing emotion was tolerated but it was generally felt that there was a better way than to vent anger on everyone. Im notn saying my family was ideal, I'm sure there is somethign to be said for blowing up and getting it out of your system. But for an ASpie, my environment was a bit easier to take. On teh down side my Mom would tend to hold onto thigns until she would just boil over, which is what my wife is doing. I can appreciate that one cant always be aware of there stress until it's too late but there has to be a better way to let soemoen know you need a break than to tell them off and blame them for all your problems.

The thing is, she is gonna be just fine now that she has vented, but I am still in a state of shock...again. I dont let go of outbursts like that easily. If it was anyone but my wife it wouldnt really bother me, but because ti is her and because she blamed me for everything wrong in her life, and said how much she hates me and wants to divorce, that is not soemthign that just blows over with me. She is fine now and I am left feelign like crap. It isnt fair of her to do this to me. Oh sure if I brought it up again she would say that she is just workign thru the pain and not lettign it control her, but why cant she do that before she makes me feel this way? My routine now is to just be glad the hard part is over and let it go on liek nothing happened. I will of course remember the points she made, and work on being a better husband, but the insults and cruelty she showed me are taking its toll on our marriage from my side.

I know that aspies can take offense when there isnt any so I am even doubtful about whether she truely insulteed me or not. It's like I cant trust anythign that goes on in my mind anymore. I dont feel I have a right to be angry because it migh tjust be the stupid AS that is causign all my percieved angst. It really sucks to not be able to trust your own emotions, that is why I simply hate having to feel them. There are times when I think I should just be grateful that my marriage lasted this long but I am kidding myself to think that an NT can give up what they naturally need in a husband emotionally. I dont want her to go but I feel like I am beign selfish by makign her stay with me.

I am so irritated with people telling me I am usign AS as an excuse. Of course I have to cope with this world, I have been at this for 40 years. I have coping skills out the wazoo. I dont know how anybody could say that I am usign it as an excuse. I have been developing ways to appear normal for decades. If I wanted an excuse, if I wanted to just be myself completely and not work at it, I would easily be a hermit in a small one room apartment with my guitar and laptop. I could be very content as an agoraphobic. Maybe even get on disability so I dont have to work. If I wanted an excuse I would not be working this hard to figure out the rest of the human race. She consults people who dont have AS and they tell her that I need to get over myself. As though the AS symptoms are just somethign I need to retrain my brain to overcome. NOONE gets it!! ! AS means you dont have that part of your brain working. It's like telling a blind man to describe a color. A blind man can learn to walk and get around and fidn a place in society, but he will never be able to see. An AS will never be able to connect with thier emotions like an NT can. Am I wrong about this, Is AS something that can be cured? Believe me if it will save my marriage I will be the fist in line for that treatment. She is more important to me than some selfish desire to just stay the way I am. Has any AS out there ever gotten over it? Are you a functioning NT now? Is it possible by any stretch of the imagination or can I finally be at rest that this is who I am and start movign forward as I am? Isnt it better for all involved if people accept that the blind man cant see?

Ugh, thanks for letting me vent, I got carried away a bit.

My current marriage is around 12 years old (I have problems with numbers so can't easily tell its exact age), though we've only lived together for a few years because my wife left and then returned, ostensibly because I wasn't relating very strongly to her kids, but I think there were other unspoken reasons. She returned when they were old enough to look after themselves, but is now talking of leaving again, this time to look for a better job, apparently. I nearly divorced her for leaving last time, and I might do if she goes again. She's never unfaithful or anything, and keeps in touch, but to me it's not really a relationship, living apart like that.

The end of my first marriage could have had a lot to do with AS - I just couldn't bear the pressure to give her attention and the loss of my individuality, so I fled. I agonised about it for some time, and felt very guilty for going, but I had to. I was less mature and more selfish perhaps, and became a lot more able to compromise as I grew, though all that seems to have done is to attract selfish partners to me.


I've heard of such ways, and have often wished to be part of them - it must be great to be able to be so immediate with anger and just let it out without fear of it hurtng anybody - but I guess my nature won't allow it. I act polite and I expect it back, I'll tolerate a certain amount of prickly behaviour and I'd like that to be reciprocated by the people I deal with, but beyond a certain level my tolerance just snaps. I like things to be nice, generally. Even if there are no insults flying around, the sheer noise of a rowdy group simply jars my nerves too much.

I see how she may be interpreting your polite manners as distance, if she's come from that background. It must be hard for her to see that quiet can be just as close. In fact it can be closer, because I don't believe rowdy people can communicate their inner, most subtle and sensitive feelings.


I'm inclined to agree. Clearly she didn't mean it when she said she hated you and wanted a divorce, but that doesn't make it right to say it. A partner of mine once, during an argument, declared that she would one day leave me. She never retracted it, and as a result I carried that remark around in my head, it affected the way I felt about her, and was one of the reasons I eventually left her. I'd told her how I'd felt about it, but she never took it back. She didn't do reassurance, sometimes I felt that she seemed to want me to be insecure. Anyway, my point is that some of us just don't take kindly to being told we're going to be deserted, whether it's meant or not, and that's a perfectly valid way to be. If it weren't normal, there would be no such word as tact in the English language.



Talking to sympathetic people ought to help. I have a lot of trouble deciding whether my emotions are valid. You talk as though you're trying to put yourself last all the time....I think too much of that kind of forebearance does more harm than good. You have a right to have your needs met every bit as much as she has that right. And are you making her stay? I'd have thought that if she really wanted to go, she'd have gone. She's still with you because she chooses to be, as she chose to marry you, and chose to have children by you. There are AS-NT couples out there who do quite well. AS itself is not a total barrier to an NT having their needs met. But if she carries on "negotiating" in such an unworkable way, she won't get what she wants, because she's blocking it herself by her own clumsiness with you.



They probably just don't understand. AS is a huge concept and most folks just don't have the time or the intelligence to understand it. People often get frustrated when they can't get somebody to behave just as they would like them to, so they get mad and start claiming the reasons are "just excuses." I think it's often done by some selfish bosses who will say anything to undermine a plausible explanation as to why a member of the workforce isn't doing exactly as the boss would like.

Me, I get pushed both ways - I have people who can't understand my impairments and try to ignore them, and I have my wife seeing AS like it's the sole problem in our relationship and yet she still fails to make allowances for my traits. Meanwhile I'm in the middle not knowing whether I'm over the diagnostic borderline or not, though it's pretty clear I have a lot of the traits. In the end I think I'm just going to have to make my own choices. I don't think it's worth bothering to "come out" as an Aspie, except to carefully-selected people. Most folks don't even know what it is. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you call it. I find the traits more objective, I can just about stand my ground and say "I can't think about 2 things at once" or whatever impairment is causing the trouble.


Apparently not. But in my case, I've known times when the people in my life have been so kind to me that AS simply wasn't an issue, so I'm convinced that if I just gravitate towards similar folks, my life will be really good again, like it used to be. It's about love, patience and tolerance - virtues that most people don't seem to have very much of, but I know it's out there.


No problem - it's all interesting stuff.

I am currently going through the exact same problem. I was diagnosed 3 years ago. Up until then, he didn't voice his complaints. He did however, act like a woman with PMS at times. We have a 17 year old Aspie son. My husband doesn't interact much with him. Our son is very high functioning in many ways except his self care skills can use working on.
My husband of 20 years has informed me that he believes we'd both be happier with different mates. He wants someone more "assertive". I have a lot of trouble with initiating affection. He says it's not my inability to initiate sex, but rather that I don't call him "sweetie" and touch him throughout the day. He seems to have his mind made up that it isn't worth working on and that we should "move on". He gets very upset when I can't speak because when faced with strong emotional distress, I freeze up. I have found porn on his computer and have also found that he looked up an old "friend" to engage in "cyber sex" online and on his cell phone. He hasn't slept in the same bed with me for 3 years! No wonder I don't want to "cherish" his existence! Also he is upset that I am not overjoyed to see him after work......That could be because he never involves himself in doing fun things with me! He rarely takes me anyplace. Christmas was sad. I bought all the gifts under the tree, nothing was there with my name on it. I gave him an Ipod. He used it for a few days then gave it back to me because he'd rather have the one with 16g!

Last night he said he will always "love"me, but doesn't think we are at all compatible.........then how did we live with each other 20 years?!

And there I was thinking I had problems with my neurotypical spouse

Well one thing's for sure - some NT partners have got some pretty tragic issues of their own.

Very sorry to read of your problems with that guy, and the lame excuses he gives must really rub it in.

Even in the NT world it's pretty unusual for a woman to initiate much affection, unless things have changed in recent times. To expect that from an Aspie woman on a regular basis is plain absurd. Especially after what he gets up to. Though I guess I'm only stating the obvious.

Maybe I'm just going thru too rebellious a stage myself to agree with most everyone else here that anyone should have to kiss-up to a bunch of negativity and emotional abuse to carry on a pretense they "love" someone who is emotionally destroying them, or maybe I have been going thru a rebellious stage all my less than happy life.

But from my perspective, I just would not be able to put up with having to make myself exist as what I am not for someone else, because it would constantly be yanking me up and down into a very deep depression about myself and causing all sorts of constant stressors that ultimately would destroy my health.

And if I have to be something I am not to please and satisfy someone else, then I have to at some point be honest at least with myself and recognize it is not really me they "love" no matter what they say or how "playful" they get, or how "fine" they feel on the rebound from destroying me emotionally, or how many "patterns" of this destruction of me they go thru.

What they "love," if they even know what that means, is some illusion of what they want it to be, not who and what you are. How can anyone live with that knowledge, without it destroying their own love for themselves ?

Alcoholics and drug addicts/substance abusers are very much like the description of your wife, too -- they will imbibe and become very very destructive to themselves and others, and then make you think you should still love them as if it all never happened and it is all your fault, the next morning after the destruction -- before they imbibe again, which they inevitably do, and it is a viscious circle of co-dependency abuse that only you can marshall your will to break by getting yourself out.

I really have come to believe not only can I not change someone else's inherent nature and what they are, nor should I expect to or even try--especially where the mismatch between two people's essential natures are such a wide gulf, but also others really should not expect to change me for the same reasons.

We are essentially who and what we are -- especially when we are on the autism spectrum. When I start hearing people say I am using my autism as an excuse or start using their behavior to make me go into a personal psychosis over my autism angst (and know full well they are doing this to me) because I am not the one conforming to them, that's when I realize the other person is being very, very destructive to my happiness and well-being because they don't like my core essence -- and THAT is not "love" no matter how many times you say the word.

People who love the other person genuinely want what is best for that other person and what makes that person thrive -- all of the time, and not just part of the time, while seesawing back and forth between a manic facade of 'everything's ok now' and the other extreme of utter destruction of your psyche and everything you live for. It is very hard for a person who has become a victim of emotional abuse to see it for what it is, and take the steps to get out. I have lived with extreme violence and abuse, see my post on the other thread about NT and Apsie marriages, and if a person is "blowing up," can't you see that is abuse ? Abuse of you, emotionally ? It is never "ok."

There are too many people in the world I know would be compatible with me (though I have only found one relationship like that when I was much younger, I know they exist) to settle for destroying myself to please someone else's constantly making me feel bad about myself, worthless, like I don't measure up to their expectations, and all the negativity, and especially if I had to ride a constant roller-coaster of their blowing up -- and I would not care how many times they tried to kiss and make up. I know I don't have to live that way -- maybe temporarily, but not forever.

Personally, for myself, I cannot live in situations that are so full of negativity, such instability, and destructiveness to me. I thrive on positivity -- let someone else dominate and control me to take the positive energy and sunshine away, and, as for me, that person would be striking a mortal blow at the heart of the core essence of what I am as a person and what I need to live just as much as if they took the air I breathe and the water I drink.

If the relationship is personally destructive, at some point, you really have to ask yourself if it is love you are really feeling -- or are you just parroting the word while carrying on a big masquerade for the benefit of the other person, what the other person wants to hear, and what has been all too familiar and "comfortable" for many years ? As I said, I have become very rebellious, and have come to realize I don't have to force myself to conform to an environment that is personally very destructive for me to fulfill someone else's illusion.

We only live once, and at some point, at least from my perspective, we have to be true to ourselves and what we want, what we really need deep down inside, and how we feel -- what makes us feel so good about ourselves and our lives that we just want to enjoy every moment of it and rise in the morning with joy in anticipation of how good we are feeling about our lives and how good others around us are making us feel. I know a relationship can be this good, because the one I found when I was younger was like that -- we were very compatible and really never had a fight that I can think of, and just really, really enjoyed being together and doing everything we could all the time to make the other person feel better and better about themselves. And this was not a short-term relationship. Once you have experienced such a positive relationship, it really makes a person want and seek out another like that, not one of utter destruction that bounces the person up and down and all over the place with so many destructive emotional abuses.

And you say you are staying in this marriage for your children ? If your emotional state is being so systematically destroyed, what do you think watching all the ups and downs, blow-ups, and mal-adapted behavior of your wife is teaching your children to prepare them for healthy adult relationships, conflict management in their careers and their own marriages, and how they will raise your grandchildren ? From what I hear, your wife's emotional instability that you find so extremely destructive, could not help but affect your children -- children do watch and emulate their parents, even parents who are lousy role models, even when the children don't say a word indicating they are even watching. You just wait, you will see the same patterns begin to develop in your children. But, by then, it will be too late to help them and what they will have learned from you is, people have to take abuse from others no matter how destructive to them personally, because that is what our father taught us by his example.

After I have heard enough, I also don't take other people's blaming me for every ill in their life. I am not perfect, not by any means, and sometimes I make mistakes, or failed to pay proper attention, or any one of the human foibles we all have from time to time. If someone close to me thinks I did something I shouldn't have, I am willing to listen and try to make a change -- so long as I am not just a punching bag to blame for every one of the other person's ills, unhappinesses, or just happen to be a spectrum person whose core essence they want to change and eradicate, because deep down inside they don't like spectrum people !

At some point, we all have to draw the line and realize if you are with a person who zigs when you zag, and there is a huge mismatch between our core essences, and an enormous incompatibility (looking at it objectively, and not just because you have put up with abuse for 14 years), then, why are you trying to "save" what just will always be so destructive to you and your happiness and welfare ? Whether we are incompatible from the start or grow apart after many years, big incompatibility is what it is -- unless one person destroys and eliminates the core essential nature of the other person, it will continue on a destructive path to that end due to the inherent incompatibility.

Your question "Isnt it better for all involved if people accept that the blind man cant see?" speaks volumes -- regardless of the kiss and make up episodes on the upswings of the cycle patterns of her destruction of you, she just doesn't obviously -- and never will -- accept your Asperger's. You are telling all of us that in your own words. You can't make people love and accept you who don't. And you should know this about NTs, you can't judge their true feelings and emotions by the words they say, including "love." And you are quite correct -- it should not matter of your Aspie diagnosis, you are the same person you always were. The problem is, it matters to her, and you are never going to change this.

Although my second husband and I have many problems, I think the story of his marriage to his second wife (I am the third), is a classic example of how destructive incompatibility can be. She came from another Country, and is a very outgoing, high energy, extroverted person, with a high finance taste. She would always push my husband to go out to restaurants and parties every night, every day of the week, every week of the year, when he is the opposite and really doesn't like to go out anywhere. He is quite anti-social, and she loved lots of socializing and friends -- the more throngs of people, the better -- for her. She also liked to live on at least $20,000 per month expenses, and my husband had trouble raising income as a barber of $1,200 a month -- just this entire relationship of an enormous mismatch that continues to this day. She divorced him in 1989, only five years after they married and had a child, but every year from then until this past year, the second wife will come for her yearly visit to make his life miserable, and before we were married she would make my husband pay for expensive beach condos for her to stay 2-6 months at a time -- but when he ran out of money due to the incompatibilities between them, she would destroy him emotionally, then unannounced, just up and leave and take his daughter with her back to Scotland, leaving him on the yearly verge of suicide. Sometimes two people and what they are and what they need are just so inherently incompatible you can never fix the essential nature of the problem to get what you need and give her what she complains she needs, and there is nothing you can do to change this essential fact no matter how long you hang in there taking the abuse in a marriage -- just to get a year count.

You know, I'm one to talk, since as my post on the other NT and Aspie marriage thread describes, I have been thru terrible terrible relationships and things in my life -- but that doesn't mean I want to stay stuck in a downward spiral of my own destruction. I am not in a great marriage, and I do want the relationship with the person I really want and so much need in my life and someday I will find that person and have that relationship -- it will be the relationship and love of my life. That does not mean I don't care about my husband and if I did get out of my marriage to have that relationship of my life for my own happiness and deepest needs, I would still always care about my second husband and remain friends and try to do everything I could to help him out. People don't have to be enemies to say to the other person, this marriage is not working out for me -- it is destructive of me personally, and I need to make a change. I think another thing that needs to be said, and I saw this somewhere else -- we are spectrum people. Our needs are not the same as the neurotypicals, and it is not *wrong* for us to make these changes we need for ourselves as auties and Aspies by judging whether what we need is *right* or *wrong* in the neurotypical world; we have to ask if it is right for us as auties and Aspies and our deepest needs and most essential happiness.

I am only saying all this, because in every line you have written in all of your posts, everything you said is crying out to get off of this roller-coaster marriage that is destroying you emotionally, and get into a better relationship -- for you. For who and what you are -- which is an Aspie, a relationship that can meet your own deep emotional needs. Sometimes, we have to start thinking about our own needs and, even if you don't want being an Aspie to define you or you might want either an Apsie or neurotypical relationship, it does not sound like (from what you have written) your present neurotypical marriage is doing anything but destroying your essential humanity (and sanity) and that of your children. How do you know you children wouldn't be happier and better adjusted for a better future if you got out ?

Best

I have similar problems with "initiating affection". I've thought about why, and for me, it seems that the reason why is due to the stress that it causes. I mean, I get stressed out if my wife walks in and asks if I want to go out for dinner. It's the sudden change in plans that throws me. I sometimes wonder if sex were scheduled if that would make it easier. I know, it sounds like the most un-romantic (and idiosyncratic) thing in the world, but I think it would help me quite a bit. And eye contact, I wonder if it would be better if that were avoided.

My wife tends to do most of the initiating affection with me. She tends to grab, and kiss, and hug in public. I've tried to tell her that it's a bit much, but she doesn't listen.

I would hate having to schedule the romance. My husband can only get romantic at certain times of the day, and it is a real turn-off. I like a bit more of the spontaneous and the element of surprise--more excitement makes it more special. I also don't have problems initiating the affection, but I don't unless I know the person loves me in the first place. Also, I really don't understand if two people are in love, them not touching each other all the time, saying nice things to each other all the time. And 'so what' about porn on the computer ? There seems to be a very basic disconnect some people have with how to express love to someone they supposedly "love." Why aren't people encouraging your significant other in the things he likes, instead of tearing these things down ? When you tear these things down, you tear down the person. Then you wonder where did the love go ...

I'm having trouble figuring out which parts are addressed to me and which are addressed to Alone in the Crowd....

The whole spontaneous thing is ok, but my wife has a hard time reading my signals. When I am anxious, I don't like being touched unexpectedly. I have no idea why, but it's just the way I am. I have told her this about a billion times, but she doesn't really care. We'll be in a restaurant, and she'll walk to the other side of the table, wrap her arms around my head, and kiss the top of it. I'm sure it looks cute, but being grabbed like that is too much for me. She also likes to do these really long kisses in public. I can't stand being the center of attention in public like that. I get so upset that it pretty much kills any romantic feelings I have for her. I love her, but it's important to remember that we all have different comfort zones. I don't like being a spectacle in public.

I'm also the same way in private if I am having a bad day. I just don't want to be touched. I've basically explained to her that if I stiffen up or push away, that means she's coming on too strong, but she doesn't seem to care. I know I'm abnormal in this area, but she takes it too far in the other direction and pays no attention to my boundaries, which makes it a lot worse.

Back before I was married, before I lived with anyone, the idea of spontaneous romance sounded great, but then I got in a relationship with someone who has no understanding of boundaries. I really have no idea how to make her happy in this area. I just don't work that way. In theory, it sounds like a great idea but just hasn't worked out that way. Is this an AS thing or not?

One more thing, MKDP, in response to the use of the word love in quotes, I have to admit, your tone confuses me. Do you realize that one of the autistic traits is over-sensitivity to spontaneous touching? Do you realize that your post comes off as if you are saying that I don't love my wife because I can't handle being touched spontaneously at all times? Think about that. It's bad enough that I have to explain these oddities out there in the real world, even more so on a forum for ASD, in response to someone that also has it.